Startrite 352E or Hammer N3800

[Random Orbital Bob]

I think my problem being a hobbyist is that 3phase just seems a step too far. I have zero experience with 3 phase and the machines are enormous. Many, the wadkins etc are obviously really old and I have an irrational and possibly groundless (I accept) fear that spares would be difficult to find etc etc. It's just a whole "other world" when you go 3 phase that I'm way out of my comfort zone with. What I dread is that instead of just getting on with the job, I'm going to spend many weekends farting about getting the thing working properly. Fettling I don't mind but becoming a 3 phase rebuild mechanic is a route I don't want to take. Also just on a practical level, they weight a flippin ton. Not sure I've seen one yet that was under 200Kg's and many are over 500

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

By the way Phil...have you seen this (3 phase mind)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261421965872? ... EBIDX%3AIT

 

[Phil Ryder]

Rob, I'm with you there on the 1phase boat. my workshop is 2,4m by 5,5m. dus not worth going for that kind of level.
the only upgrade i can afford and in my opinion is sensible, is a one phase 16-32 amp arrangement.
the other thing is, and that is the reason I wanted to push for a 1inch blade, a rigid table and power, that I won't have the space for more machines like a planer/thicknesser etc.
also needing to take in consideration that I live in a neighbourhood, not ideal, but hey, I'm dealing with what I've got.
A benchdrill/mortiser would be on my list and possibly a little table saw, but thats it spacewise. the rest will have to go under my benchplanes and chisels.

I did see that one cheers. but three phase...

question: would you go for the N4400 or a used Startrite 401E ?

Wallace, I spoke to my sparky. he said I would look at at least a grand to have 3phace in my house...first I need to win in the lottery.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I would always favour a startrite but I'm from near Sheffield originally

I know Felder have a great name and that was why the Hammer machines were in scope for my shortlist but if I were spending in the £2K vicinity I would go for the startrite. The trouble is, that 401 is way too expensive for hobby use. Its just a waste of money because I would never get the advantage of its continuous use rated motor as an amateur. I need sturdy and capacity....but not at any cost. I cant find any 2nd hand 401's whereas Hammer and 352's are coming up on ebay. I think I'm going to attend the Kidderminster RP road show tomorrow as I can see the 352 standing next to a BS400 and really visualise the differences. Its a 2 hour drive for me but I don't want to (fruit of your choice) this up.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Now that's what I call a bandsaw

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bandsaw-/2311 ... 35d33a8573

 

[Phil Ryder]

hi Peter. thanks for your comment.

funny we meet again on the forum. remember me? the austrian who came to see you at your school with my pregnant wife about a year ago?
never mind if not.

austrian, yes, thats another reason the hammer attracts my attention.
are you saying you've got both the n3800 and the N4400? and are you saying the n4400 will take the 1 inch blade without a problem?

it has been said that the tension/spring mechanism on the hammer is a bit whimpy. whats your opinion on that?

I might as well come up to the show and see you. its mentioned and who knows, perhaps I made up my mind by then already.
how long did you wait for them to be delivered?

best,

Philipp.

 

[Phil Ryder]

@Rob haha!!!!good one!
if I'd get this one, I'd dig a river next to it with a water wheel to fit the picture.

make sure the 352 is really there. I spoke to Dave at kidderminster and he said that there will only be RP machines, no startrites.
wouldn't want you to waste 4 hours of petrol.

 

[Phil Ryder]

I meant if you could get the 401E for the same price as the n4400.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Hi Phil
I do remember you, your wife and your spider gate?, good to hear you are still woodworking.
I haven't used the Hammer 3800 but have had the N4400 for 8 years or more, the max size of the blade is 20mm which is in the machine 90% of the time. I find this big enough for all the work we undertake in the workshop. I never un tension the bandsaw at night as some people recommend and have never had any problems with tension or tracking issues. For me two of the most important factors are quick blade change over and easy guide set up, size is important but only if it has the power to run it. For me its been a very reliable bit of kit and worth the 2 month wait.
Hope to see you at one of the shows Peter

 

[wallace]

Heres one for you http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wadkin-bandsa ... 35d34fdaf3
Phil you don't need 3 phase to run 3 phase machines. All you need is one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-QUALITY- ... 19ce0450b5 Then wire it up and off you play. Its a bursgreen so not as heavy as the old stuff, spares are still available and the build quality is there.

 

[Phil Ryder]

really? why did my sparky said I would?
I'll look into it. still somehow I am tending towards a new machine...

 

[wallace]

I have thirteen 3 phase machines all run off a static converter which is wired into its own MCB in the consumer unit. If you only have one 3 phase machine it is easier to just get a variable frequency drive (VFD) which could be wired from 3 pin plug. This way it opens a whole new world of machinery which is of better quality more powerfull and with a vfd a doddle to resell if you ever wanted.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I must say the world of 3 phase is a very interesting one. Lots of classic old beautys which have an appeal all of their own leave alone the job they're supposed to do. I'm sure it must be quite easy to get seduced into the restoration of some of those classic monuments to cast iron.

 

[Phil Ryder]

so Bob, did you go down to kidderminster?

 

[Phil Ryder]

I'll have a look into it Wallace.
cheers.

 

[wallace]

I call it an illness, at the moment I'm suffering from a very bad case of wadkinitis. 3 years ago I had lots of little tin type machines then I got a pk sawbench which weighs in at 850kg. Now I have 13 lumps of wadkin in my workshop, most have been restored. And then I have another 3 machines in my garden.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I call it an illness, at the moment I'm suffering from a very bad case of wadkinitis. 3 years ago I had lots of little tin type machines then I got a pk sawbench which weighs in at 850kg. Now I have 13 lumps of wadkin in my workshop, most have been restored. And then I have another 3 machines in my garden.

Right there....that's why I'm avoiding that route.....I just know I'll get sucked into it too

 

[Phil Ryder]

I think I'm going to attend the Kidderminster RP road show tomorrow as I can see the 352 standing next to a BS400 and really visualise the differences. Its a 2 hour drive for me but I don't want to (fruit of your choice) this up.[/quote]

any news?????

 

[Phil Ryder]

i'm not so good with the quoting I think......

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

so Bob, did you go down to kidderminster?

Didn't need to....called them in the morning and had long chat with the Bandsaw guru from Record. The bottom line is I've bought the BS400. The 352 just isn't the right saw for my needs. The 352 has lower capacities than I need, and is aimed really at a small joinery workshop. The motor is rated for that environment but in terms of heft the 400 wins hands down. Bigger capacities, more accessible guides, heavier machine, decent cast iron table, fence, trunion and bandwheels plus huge tensioning assembly. Even the extraction has a natty little pipe running from the primary outlet to just under the lower blade guides to try and get the dust before the wheel fans it out inside the cab. Don't forget I had a 300 for nearly 5 years before this decision and I never had any problems with it and I cut a lot of thick and green stock with it. The 300 has a 1HP motor and it never once stalled on me, in fact it never even slowed down. So the 400 has a 2HP motor as well as all the additional beef and cast iron and I just know its going to cope with thicker green timber.

There was a thread somewhere that accused Record of badge engineering. They do do that on the 10, 12 and 250 but from the 300 above the machines are unique to Record. The penny really dropped with me today, its been staring me in the face. I need to stop being so influenced by other peoples feedback and just trust what my own experiences tell me. My 300, at half the power of this saw never let me down and I threw some very different jobs at it. This saw has it all for me including the lack of need to rig up a 16amp supply, a 5 yr warranty, capacity, heft etc etc.

So I was on the blower to Ian ordering the 1" Ripper blade (1.3tpi). That'll see off the fallen ash tree that's currently adorning my garden. Plus 1/2" 3tpi for radius cuts for bowl blanks and finally a nice 6tpi for some normal cutting of proper wood, just in case I ever actually finish disposing of this ash tree and start making furniture again .

I cant wait to stick that ripper on....it sounds like an animal. Ian says its one of the blades that get used in mobile sawmills.