Startrite 275 Table Saw Conversion: 3 phase - Single Phase

[Ozark]

The smaller things I can pick up locally.

The main things I haven't worked out yet is the wiring of the switches to the inverter. I have downloaded the manual but haven't worked out the detail yet.

Also want to be sure using an extension cable with the MCB and fuse arrangement as above is ok.

I have watched videos about setting parameters on an invertec inverter and it looks straightforward enough.

 

[Myfordman]

Lose a chunk of power by creating a false phase with a capacitor, it'll start but max power down if I recall 30%ish.

F.

This is correct but it is not often you absolutely need all the motor power in a hobby workshop. Just take heavy jobs more gently.
A 240v static converter with capacitors and no transformer used on delta connected motors will get 3 phase machinery up and running generally at lowest cost but you need a bit of electrical and mechanical expertise to make and box it up safely.
Other areas where inverters/VFDs win over converters are little or no start up surge which is kinder to power sources/breakers and the ability to programme the braking to stop the machine in a few seconds. The other huge advantage of VFDs is variable speed. Once you have had a lathe, drill, milling machine etc with variable speed you will never want to to back to stepped pulley speed selection.

At one time inverters were expensive and rarely available second hand and so static converters were a more popular choice for hobbyists. The advent of Chinese brand inverters and availability of second hand models has skewed the decisions now such that used known brand or new Chinese inverters are the primary choice for most applications.
I've never worked on a Chinese inverter so no experience of how well they are built. I often modify inverters for special applications and so stick to brands I know and understand. One of these days I will have to buy a Chinese one and see what they are like. They are very popular amongst the CNC community who run their spindles at up to 400Hz to get 24000rpm for wood cutting and I don't hear much about reliability issues with the VFDs - more problems with the spindles to be honest.

Bob

 

[Ttrees]

I disconnected the pot on my old one as it tripped out, and I needed to do a "manual reset" you could call it .
testing out my bandsaw with a bad tire around 30HZ it failed to start, and once more again cutting plastic.
I found the answer on one of the CNC pages.
It involves taking the front panel off,unscrewing the two screws and pulling a ribbon cable plug to reset it
I have not tried a pot on this newer one as its on the startrite.
I don't think I will bother hooking the bandsaw up with variable speed again, once I get another.
and, I don't intend to disconnect the input from the switches once wired either!

I think, I will be making them easier to dismount in the future

Tom

 

[Ozark]

Can someone explain how the stop start (NC, NO) buttons should be wired up to the inverter. I can't figure it out.

In the Invertek inverter there are two wires connected to terminals 1 and 2. I think the HY inverter is similar. I can understand how a simple on/off switch would make and break this circuit but I can't figure it out for NC/NO buttons. Does the NO contact remain closed once the motor is started.

 

[Ttrees]

Both the start NO and stop NC button has two connections at the back.
Wire NO to FOR (start) on the green terminal
Wire NC to DCM (stop) (in series if you like)
The other terminal in both switches go to RST (relay)
These have to both fit into the tiny terminal
That's it

 

[Ozark]

Thanks once again Tom.

Should have given the manual a bit more reading

 

[Ttrees]

Hello again
Here is a piccy of the wiring to the Huanyang VFD
I'm not sure if its good practice to bolt that earth to the casing...
Any thoughts folks ?

Here is the parameters on the Huanyang, that I have on my Startrite 275 with Leroy-Somer motor.

Pd 13 - 8 factory default (apparently 1 is for the old drives, you can tell from the front keypad panel)
Pd 3 - 50HZ motor Hertz
Pd 4 - 50HZ _
Pd 5 - 50HZ _
Pd 8 - 230V voltage
Pd 14 - 7 acceleration ( i think that's what I set it to )
Pd 15 - 10 deceleration ( i think that's what I set it to )
Pd 141 - 230V voltage
Pd 142 - 8.0A motor amperage
Pd 143 - 2 motor pole number
Pd 144 - 2900 RPM
Pd 1 - select 1 for switch enabled

The wires for the switches are very low voltage, and can be handled.
The stop NC can be hooked together, and then the start NO wires can be struck
to start the motor, handy if you've got the wires mixed up in conduit, or checking a switch.

I forgot to add, that these things hold a charge for a period and should be allowed to drain off
before any disconnection or touching of the power terminals is made

Also, It might be a good idea to keep an eye on the temperature of motor as it could need cleaning out.
Easy to disassemble the motor for a check up, Just run a line with a marker or something first ! , to align it all back up again
as you will lose track of which side was up.


Tom

 

[Ozark]

Well I picked the saw up over the weekend. It looks to be in fairly good shape but I need to give it a clean and lube. Nice heavy cast iron top. Bit of rust on the metal panelling down near the feet but it's not very deep and will sand off fairly easily and a bit of rust protector should see it good.

Inverter and stop/start switches ordered so should be here in about a week and I can see if she works. Found a thread where someone reported burning out the inverter when using it on a motor that was shot. Someone showed how to check the motor beforehand so must find that thread again.

 

[Ttrees]

Ozark, I have not stumbled across that thread or similar here anyway...
If you find it post a link here.
In my mind if you had a faulty motor, the VFD would give you an error code ?

I just switched out the VFD from my tablesaw to my bandsaw as I need the bandsaw for the next week.
I have noticed the carrier frequency is louder than before though.
Its suspected that I possibly damaged the motor the last time I used it.
I said in another thread recently that the terminal box had a smell that wasn't there before.

The way to properly check a motor out is to do an insulation resistance test with a megohmmeter.
This unit sends a small charge through the windings and you check for any loss of power.
These units cost around half the price of those VFD's, so I took the chance on getting back to work instead.

I will be monitoring the heat of my bandsaw motor in future.
Maybe I will get a megohmmeter to try fixing my old VFD, but it doesn't look like theirs point in buying one to check a motor, unless you plan on buying second hand ones, as it seems if you have a dud motor, it's cheaper to
just buy a new one.
From what I gather those rewind shops will talk their way into making you out of pocket...
Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I think these guys are making a living from highly specific factory motors, not regular.

Tom

 

[Ozark]

So the inverter arrived yesterday. It's a genuine Huan Yang HY02D223B.

I set it up today and I think I got a faulty one. Major pain.

I have it connected to single phase 220V power supply and nothing else. Terminals R and T and Earth. When I powered it on and hit Run it ramped up to 400Hz which I thought was a bit odd as the factory default should be 50Hz.

Anyway I went about setting the parameters only to find it won't save any of the changes. PD000 is set to 0. I can change PD000 to 1 and it will save this setting but it won't save any other parameter changes. And I have set PD000 back to 0.

I really hope I'm doing something wrong but it's not looking good.

 

[Fitzroy]

Mine was set to 400 from the factory had to set it to 60hz. Fingers crossed it's not a duff un.

 

[Ozark]

Well I don't know if I fixed it but it's working fine now.

The only thing I did was to switch the order of the terminals R and T. I initially had Neutral to R and Live to T and I switched these around.

 

[Ttrees]

Hello Ozark
Make sure you enter these parameters in the sequence I stated.
Well the parameter reset one first.
PD 03, 04 and 05 may need to be entered backwards.ie PD 05,04,03
DON'T RUN THESE WITHOUT MOTOR HOOKED UP
If you had run your motor it would have chooched at 400HZ !!!
Our motors in Europe run on 50Hz, which refers to the speed of the motor.
America is on 60Hz

The reason why you should have your motor hooked up before use, is it can cause a component failure
I know this to be the case if you disconnect the motor while in use.
It is policy that you don't have a way of disconnecting the motor to the VFD.

Also the plug is not an emergency stop switch or off switch, this will cause failure.

I hope its obvious that terminal 9 is for the earth, for both the motor and the 240v input.
There is other embossing elsewhere that is false , this has been confirmed multiple times.

Check the motor for heat, and check your 240v line to the wall also.
Tom

 

[Ttrees]

Hello again
Just thinking a bit more on the subject, I realised I could have mentioned a bit more...

You have not mentioned anything about a cabinet or cover for dust protection.
It's probably possible that you will short circuit the device, if dust was to join the phases or other components.
If you have not used a tablesaw before, You might be surprised the amount of dust it produces.
I have cheap overalls for the job and my back is absolutely covered in dust.

If you do have the VFD mounted far away from the saw, you could also use armored cable from the VFD to the motor.
It is said to cause less noise and interference along with being safer.

It may also have effect on the temperature of the motor ????

If you choose to do this, you need an earth point, as the armored cable strands needs to be bunched up and connected to the earth within, so in essence you have a cable with two earths.

I think this is more for lower speed motors like lathes and such, as the motor will get hot if its not running fast enough for the fan to draw air in to cool it.
I believe the VFD makes more noise at lower speeds also, so this is another reason the armored cable is recommended .
Although its probably recommended full stop.
Tom

 

[kinsella]

Ozark
Check out my experience of changing from 3 phase to single phase for this exact machine.

3-phase-to-single-phase-startrite-275-conversion-from-3-ph-t91106.html

 

[Ttrees]

Hello Kinsella
Nice job, you look like the type of person that looks like you do things right.

Does the fence keep needing to be tightened on your machine ?
Beware of that Ozark !
I have taken mine apart, but no change.
I have a screwdriver for the job close by.

Does the blade go out of alignment when you tilt it to 45 ?

Thanks
Tom

 

[kinsella]

Hello Kinsella
Nice job, you look like the type of person that looks like you do things right.

Does the fence keep needing to be tightened on your machine ?
Beware of that Ozark !
I have taken mine apart, but no change.
I have a screwdriver for the job close by.

Does the blade go out of alignment when you tilt it to 45 ?

Thanks
Tom

No, its the original fence and I've never had any problems with it. I've also never noticed any issues when at 45, which seems to suggest i don't have any.

 

[Ozark]

Hi Kinsella,

It was your thread and video that brought me to this site in the first place. So thanks for that. I've read your account about 20 or 30 times now so I almost know it off by heart.

Tom, thanks for all your help. You've been great. I've operated a table saw before so I do know about the mountains of material it generates.

I'm about to hit the start button. Wish me luck.

 

[Ozark]

Success !

Running beautifully.

Thanks to everyone for the kind assistance. Much appreciated.

 

[Ozark]

One more query folks.

The blade looks to be in pretty good shape but I tried opening the spindle nut that holds it in place and it seems fairly stuck. Were these reverse thread or regular?