starting a workshop from scratch

[OldWood]

Hi Divman and welcome

Everyone and their dog will give you their pennyworth on this question !!

I have a problem with up and over doors, and if you can find some way round it I would get rid of it. My Dad died because on one - something went on fire in his workshop (a similarly converted garage), blocking we guess the side entrance and it looks as if he couldn't get the up n'over door to lift before there was an explosion.

They are the spawn of the devil for workshops. They leak (water, air and heat), you cannot really secure them and they are a pig to operate from the inside and you have to leave space for them to lift.

You are very welcome to use my story in your negotiations with your gran but see if you can persuade her to allow you to remove it and replace the existing door with wooden panelling and a 'normal' door. It won't cost you much but there are so many advantages.

Electrics - I would suggest that there is a group here who aren't using a bit of grey matter. They are making the point that you will only be using one piece of electrical machinery at a time, but then saying you need to have a 40A supply. Bit of logic, please guys. An ordinary 2.5mm^2 t&e supply is all that is required - after all that has a 23A capacity and with a suitable slow blow (C type) 15A or 20A mcb will satisfy all amateur workshop requirements. I run a 3 hp table saw off such a cable from the house, via a local CU, without any problems and the start up current on that is pretty high.

Flooring - go to Costco (and I'm sure there's other outlets) and get packs of their interlocking 600mm rubber flooring ; excellent - insulation, soft on the feet, safety for dropped tools.

And insulate, insulate, insulate - it'll make a huge difference to your comfort out there.

OW

 

[9fingers]

You might want to consider fitting your own electricity meter which you can buy cheaply on Ebay and add this in when you are wiring in the new supply.
This might help keep the peace with your workshop donor if the heating and other power consumption raises the electricity bill too much.

This would be nothing to do with the leccy board but purely a private arrangement.

Good Luck

Bob

 

[jimi43]

In addition to that excellent advice I would also say that you have to have any outdoor electrical supply and installation installed or approved according to Part P of the UK Building regulations now.

An approved electrician will advise what supply and earth requirements are best for your installation. Failure to do so is now subject to a heavy fine and may invalidate the insurance in the event of a claim.

:wink:

Jim

 

[devonwoody]

I started in woodwork with just an extension lead from the indoor 13amp. mains supply.

Heavy mains wiring to a garage can cost a lot of money and needs a certificate these days from a qualified electrian,

So if using electric powertools you might have to go the battery way.

As mentioned before buy tools only when needed for a particular project and doing things with handtools is the safest way to start.

 

[OldWood]

Electrical Regulations Part P do NOT apply in Scotland. The OP lives in Glasgow. He only needs an electrical installer who can prove competence.

OW

 

[jimi43]

Electrical Regulations Part P do NOT apply in Scotland. The OP lives in Glasgow. He only needs an electrical installer who can prove competence.

OW

Well that's all right then.... :wink:

 

[OldWood]

Well that's all right then.... :wink:

That's a bit cynical. We're being asked by someone who indicates he has little knowledge to assist him setting up a workshop. The advise given by you included talking to an electrician about Part P certification - it doesn't do this forum's advise any good, nor the OP's confidence if the electricin in Glasgow turns round and says "you don't know what you're talking about laddie, Part P only applies to the English". It does raise the thought of how valid some of the other advise is.

OW

 

[jimi43]

I missed he was in Scotland....that's about it.

It doesn't apply to him so he does not need to heed it does he?

Thanks for pointing that out my friend.

Jim

 

[OldWood]

Well he doesn't need to do the Part P thing at least, but as we are talking about consumer units and the likes, he would be well advised to get someone in who knows the current legal ins and outs wrt Building Control.

I've a degree in electrics (and hence is/was classifiable as 'competent') and did all my wiring before the current rash of controls came in.

OW

 

[jimi43]

Well he doesn't need to do the Part P thing at least, but as we are talking about consumer units and the likes, he would be well advised to get someone in who knows the current legal ins and outs wrt Building Control.

I've a degree in electrics (and hence is/was classifiable as 'competent') and did all my wiring before the current rash of controls came in.

OW

I did my qualifications millennia ago before all this came in so I know where you are coming from perfectly.

Are you in the same position in that even if you do all your own wiring you need someone certified to come in to test it?

I was merely worried that he would go ahead with ANY outside work and then get slammed by the authorities...it was mentioned only in kindness...before I realised he was north of the border....

Some of the regs make perfect sense....some are a little over-cautious in my honest view.

But I guess they are looking at the lowest common denominator...to legislate against that criteria is difficult to say the least!

Also - not being sure of the run involved I was thinking about voltage drop and earthing requirements in the distant location.

I will bow to more qualified on here to comment in future....

Many thanks...and by the way...text is "cynical" as a medium...my comment was not meant that way in the least....not to you anyway.

Cheers mate

Jim

 

[jlawrence]

There are some useful sites out there for calculating voltage drops (can't find my link atm), it having put in the distance, power etc etc it then tells you the minimum cable size needed.
I'm in sort of a similar boat, but have a friendly sparky who will come in and certify work I've done - after he's checked it out.

 

[OldWood]

Sorry Jim - it was the 'wink' that triggered the 'emotion' slightly.

I think we are coming from the same point - and like you I'm not absolutely up to scratch with both the current regulations and local legislation. I do know what is safe and I do also know that a lot of OTT requirements get called up.

Things are certainly a bit easier in Scotland. Regardless of everything, I would suggest that to the OP that if he is going down the road properly that he gets someone with up to date knowledge to fit things like the CU, meter if he's going to do that and if he knows nothing about wiring, then all the sockets, etc.

To many of us this sort of wiring is second nature, but to others it is just a black hole !!

Rob

 

[divman]

thanks again everyone,

starting to get the ball rolling,
cleared out the garage, priced some flooring and some sort of rubber underlay and priced insulation.

just need to bulk up security and sort out a nice band saw and then i can start worrying about the electrics.
i honestly thought the hard part would be getting the space :lol:

one of my friends is an electrician and is willing to help me when the time comes.

everyones advice has been priceless and greatly appreciated.

i'll be sure to write all about it and add some photos.

cheers,

divman

 

[jimi43]

No worries Rob....the text form on forums is easily misunderstood and especially so if you don't "know" someone from years of posting.

The wink signified "job done" but I see exactly where you are coming from and for that misunderstanding I take full blame mate!

I think the distance drop calc is in BS7671 Part P but this WIKI link is spot on with a table and explanation of the current (pun intended) regs and really helpful when the time comes.

I would say that if you follow these regs even if you are in Scotland you will do a fine job...but this may be cost related as you say Rob...over the top!

A good electrician friend is worth having! I am glad you are progressing and hope we may help in our little ways.....

Cheers

Jim

 

[devonwoody]

How come Scotland doesnt have the P certifcate . I thought it was an EU directive type thing?

It looks as if the Scots dont get the same high quality consumer protection that we enjoy south of the border :wink:

 

[OldWood]

I'm not quite sure how we avoided it - mainly because we do have a competency requirement in place I think.

Your comment about consumer protection is a load of cobblers I'm afraid. The whole Part P was con on the part of the electrical installation industry; there was no evidence at all that DIY installations were causing anymore electrical accidents than professional installations, and anyway the total number of accidents due to faulty installation was very low. If the Scottish government had any evidence that Part P was necessary here then they would implement it - fortunately they aren't as stupid as the Westminster bunch, particularly that silly person Prescott.

The nett result of Part P is that actually there are more accidents in the house now from overloaded sockets and from falling over trailing extension leads because people are inhibited from installing additional sockets themselves.

OW

 

[divman]

as i am converting a garage, does anyone know what road i have to go down regarding insurance?

the further i get the more problems i encounter!!!

it'll all be worth it in the end though.

 

[jimi43]

as i am converting a garage, does anyone know what road i have to go down regarding insurance?

the further i get the more problems i encounter!!!

it'll all be worth it in the end though.

I think your best bet is to contact your house and buildings insurers (both if they are separate) and ask them. Tell them everything you are doing and make sure you are covered. If you don't get this right and something is stolen or a fire results from new use then you may not be covered and the premiums you are paying are wasted money.

Remember...insurance "adjusters" are paid to minimise claims and ANY issue they find that voids the insurance will be used.

Once you have the new quote...shop around...the supermarket websites work....or WHICH is a useful source of value for money.

Single valuable items like machine tools may need to be insured as itemised on your policy. If in doubt ask.

Jim