Stanley Bailey 4 & 3x5's - Bigger planes & another interesting day

[Roberto Flintofski]

You lot are going to hate me !

So then, busying yesterday with the small rebate plane and there is an old geezer always speaks when walking his dog comes over as he sees me messing about and we get chatting about the Old tools and stuff and he is telling me how it was all done in the old days ( I'm always interested and more so now I seem to like 'hand tools' rather than machines. )

Told him I was looking for a bigger plane and was buying one 2nd hand off a chap on here, though no more about it, went out this morning and frigged with the small one then had to go to the Drs for Blood tests and came back to these on my door step !

have stripped down the No 4 and flattened the sole and the sides and am currently soaking the crudd off the rest of it, is the blade salvageable ?

 

[billw]

I'd buy a new blade.

 

[brocher]

Lucky you!

 

[Roberto Flintofski]

ive 3 more ! in the other 3 x 5's ! they utilise the same blade

The 4 has plastic handle and know so dont think as old as the other 3

 

[Roberto Flintofski]

Been trying to identify its age all I can see is 014 on the base plate & QC 37 of the blade support with a raised ring around the handle

https://cloud.woodandshop.com/wp-co...ey-bailey-handplane-type-study-flow-chart.pdf
Not sure if I'm getting things right but does that mean its type 14 ( 1929-1928 ) ? i think ive probably got hold of the wrong end of the stick somewhere !

 

[Roberto Flintofski]

Lucky you!

Looking at them I'm not sure I'm that lucky !

 

[sploo]

Looks to be plenty of life left in all those blades - grind them to ~25 degrees and sharpen and you'll be fine.

Any "Made in England" Stanleys will be later builds, and the dating info isn't always accurate for those (UK) models. Plastic handles (plus that frog design) would probably put it at 1970s or later.

The No 5 (second from right in your first photo) looks to have a keyhole shaped cutout in the lever cap (unlike the others with the kidney shape). That would indicate it's likely earlier than a Type 16 (so pre-1933).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't know how you grind your tools. but there's a lot to take off if you want to grind that iron off straight - take some of it off on a wheel with the iron down flat first so there's much less chance of overeating it. Don't forget also that cleaning up/polishing the whole of the face of the blade is working for nothing - it's only the first few millimeters where the cap fits that matters. Nice find - I've cleaned up far, far worse.

 

[Owd Jockey]

Sploo is correct in saying that any Made in England Stanley Bailey plane will be from 1937 onwards. The oldest plane appears to be the No 5. (second from right), which if manufactured in USA, could be "typed" and approximately dated. But we would need more photos of the bed, patent markings, adjuster knob, frog and lateral lever.

 

[Roberto Flintofski]

The Record ( far right ) & Stanley Bailey next to it both have the keyhole slots ! but all appear to be a bit of a mish mash

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Frankenplanes are far from uncommon. They work just the same.

 

[sploo]

The Record ( far right ) & Stanley Bailey next to it both have the keyhole slots ! but all appear to be a bit of a mish mash

From the single photo at least, the older Stanley No 5 looks about right. Photos of the face of the frog (including and markings on the lever), and any details on the body just behind the frog would be required for further dating.

 

[custard]

I'm pretty sure all of those irons are the older, laminated steel ones that Record and Stanley in Britain used in the immediate pre and post war periods. Irons with very angular corners, ie with absolutely zero rounding of the corners, are the laminated ones. There was quite a long thread on it a year or two ago, try searching "laminated Record blades".

They are very good irons, the one possible downside is that you you should be wary about sharpening any laminated blade on a diamond stone for fear of clogging up the diamond matrix and rendering the stone useless.

 

[sploo]

I'm pretty sure all of those irons are the older, laminated steel ones that Record and Stanley in Britain used in the immediate pre and post war periods. Irons with very angular corners, ie with absolutely zero rounding of the corners, are the laminated ones. There was quite a long thread on it a year or two ago, try searching "laminated Record blades".

They are very good irons, the one possible downside is that you you should be wary about sharpening any laminated blade on a diamond stone for fear of clogging up the diamond matrix and rendering the stone useless.

I was mildly surprised to see a sharp cornered iron on the newer No 4; but I can't recall exactly when they changed over.

 

[Jacob]

,,,, is the blade salvageable ?

Blades are sharpenable until you've run out of blade and edge too near the keyhole

 

[Jacob]

.... you should be wary about sharpening any laminated blade on a diamond stone for fear of clogging up the diamond matrix and rendering the stone useless.

I always use oil on diamond, same as for oil stone. It helps float off the swarf. Worst culprit seems to be the laminated Japanese "Smoothcut" where the backing steel is very soft and can clog up the works.
Same with wet n dry but just white spirit. It cuts better and the paper lasts longer.

 

[Roberto Flintofski]

Well, a bit of progress today and aching arms!

Took ages on the 300 diamond stone and then on the 1000 other side, I used a honing guide as am obv a novice and got the angle as close to 25' as poss.

Result? Well it cuts not bad to be fair. Had a bit of trouble keeping the edge of the blade 100 flat to the stone and 90' to the sides!

 

[Roberto Flintofski]

Looking at the ground edge of the blade I guess I need to give it more "licks" on 1000g side to get it really smooth and get rid of the ridges then strop it more. The shavings arnt bad ribbons but split in places which I guess is the minute ridges on the blade.

 

[Jacob]

Looks good.
25º - you only need to rough grind this approximately i.e. an angle slightly less than the 30º edge you are aiming for.
You then hone at 30º with a finer stone, just enough to get a sharp edge..
The 25º ish rough grind just makes it a lot quicker. Only the very edge is fine honed, though this little bevel will get extended each time you touch it up with a fine stone, until the point is reached where another 25º ish regrind would help.

 

[Nigel Burden]

You might want to take the corners off the honed edge to avoid the blade creating a ridge. This would be a real nuisance when smoothing a board. Some woodworkers prefer to camber the blade, others, Paul Sellers takes the sharp edge off the corners. This is important on smoothing planes.

Questions Answered - When is Sharpening Enough or too Much - Paul Sellers' Blog

You can see what I mean in the photo of the back of the blade.

Nigel.