Spindle Moulders & Router Tables

[ByronBlack]

With my workshop progressing quite nicely, I need to put some thought to e eventual tooling. After spending some time looking on ebay, I started to notice a few bargains in the machinery sections.

Now, not knowing too much about these beasts other than they eat babies at christmas and require a weekly feed of puppies and kittens to run effectively, what is the benefit of a moulder over a router in a table, other than it's biggger and more powerful?

 

[Alf]

Now, not knowing too much about these beasts other than they eat babies at christmas and require a weekly feed of puppies and kittens to run effectively...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Steve Maskery]

Horses for courses, BB.

If you are into architectural work - mouldings, architraves, large-scale joinery or just long runs, then a SM is the better bet. It will accept bigger tooling, has a larger sweep (which means a better finish), and is quieter. Cutters have traditionally been cheaper than router cutters, especially for large mouldings, but that is less so these days as the price of router cutter has fallen.

A router table is cheaper. A router table will allow over-the-top cutting which a SM will not.

I have both (I built a souped-up Norm) and am thinking of selling my SM as I use it infrequently. However, when I do use it, I think "I wouldn't like to be doing this on my RT". I'm about to make a set of windows and French doors, and will be using the SM rather than the RT.

Mark Corke, who used to write for GW until he emigrated (and then for a while afterwards) used to reckon it was the most versatile machine in the shop. He would plane with it, for example. I know other people, too, for whom it is the workhorse of the shop.

More heat than light, I suspect!


It all depends on what type of WW you intend to do.

 

[DaveL]

Byron,

I thought you said you where going to use many hand tools? So some of those nice boat anchors that Alf loves should allow you to produce your complex mouldings without scouring the area for puppies and kittens. :wink:

 

[DomValente]

Bigger and better mouldings,curved mouldings, tenoning, higher feed capacity and yes they eat anyone who isn't paying attention.
My advice: use all the safety guards recommended and to get the best from your machine, either go on a course or get a friend in who can teach you the benefits and dangers of these machines.
Unless you intend to make large mouldings or intend production runs a good router table should be adequate.

Dom

 

[Scrit]

A router table will allow over-the-top cutting which a SM will not.

I depends - if you have a spindle moulder which has a removeable top piece and will take a stub tenon then it's just as possible, and some spindle moulders such as the Felder, Hammer and Moretens MF30 will take router cutters in spindle adaptors at 14,000 to 15,000 rpm. The Moretens is a particularly interesting concept I find

I'm actually the other way inclined to Steve. I use a mixture of spindle moulder, overhead pin router, and router tables in the shop. For joinery work you simply can't beat a spindle especially as they'll take a huge bite in one pass (how about a 44m high x 30mm deep rebate in one pass) and they'll produce reasonable tenons (a single-end tenoner is even better at that), although the pin routers will work into tight corners and do tight radii that a spindle can't handle and there are decided advantages to being able to use guide pins with templates. Ultimately, though, if you are doing predominently joinery work then I feel a spindle is the way to go, mainly because it will handle the big sections. For cabinet work I'd say you need a router in a table first, then a pin router and finally a spindle unless you intend to do lots of deep raised panels or very large cornice mouldings and the like from the off.

Because of their voracious appetite for wood spindles have probably got an unfairly poor reputation for safety (in fact a lot more accidents occur on table saws) possibly because people won't spend the time to set them up and guard properly. I've used bonnet guards a and ring fences on spindles for copy machining of chair legs and the like and the only time it is ever frightening is if your jig is too small or light and your hand holds are badly positioned. I'd certainly agree with the comments about getting proper training if you buy one.

As others have said it all depends on what type of WW you intend to do

Scrit

 

[ProShop]

Having used both over the years the spindle moulder gets my vote everytime. Much better finish imho, and you can work a lot quicker, you can do most mouldings in one pass. You don't need a large SP if your only making small items and they are much easier & quicker to setup.

Cutter prices have come down and are on a par or cheaper (if you know where to shop) than router cutters.

 

[Jake]

you simply can't beat a spindle especially as they'll take a huge bite in one pass (how about a 44m high x 30mm deep rebate in one pass)

How big is your workshop again?

 

[Steve Maskery]

you simply can't beat a spindle especially as they'll take a huge bite in one pass (how about a 44m high x 30mm deep rebate in one pass)

How big is your workshop again?

Nice one Jake!

Actually a very good point - if you have the space, have both. But in my workshop the SM doesn't earn its footprint.

 

[Scrit]

you simply can't beat a spindle especially as they'll take a huge bite in one pass (how about a 44m high x 30mm deep rebate in one pass)

How big is your workshop again?

If you are rebating a 1.9 metre long door frame you'll still need 3.8 metres length to accommodate it whether it's on a router table or a spindle moulder. And a spindle moulder will still work a much larger profile in a single pass. Same as ripping 8 x 4ft sheets of MDF - you need a good 18ft plus to do that. If you don't have the space then portable tools are the only alternative. However, I still feel that spindle moulders have a place for smaller pieces and smaller ones don't take any more space than router tables, it depends on whether or not it can earn it's footprint as Steve says - and in a professional workshop that's even more important as rent and rates then come into play. If you haven't got the space for a small spindle moulder you'll probably struggle to accommodate a router table - unless you go in for a bit of innovative thinking.

Scrit

 

[Jake]

I was joking - you missed an m out of one of your mms.

 

[woodbloke]

Scrit wrote:

how about a 44m high x 30mm deep rebate in one pass

I used a SM for a time in the furniture making business and found them to be much more efficient in most areas than the RT which was used generally for small stuff. The SM was always the the weapon of choice. Though I had some expert training, I was instructed to always take small bites at the job, never one huge lump or the machine would definitely bite back and always 100% concentration (same as with any machine). I found the ring fence especially tricky to use untill I was used to it and even then I was very careful with the set up and feed rate.
In the second firm I worked for, an 'operative' had incorrectly set up the block so that in use a cutter flew out and embedded itself into the wall about 20' away at head height - right next to where someone else was using the pillar drill :shock: :shock: Missed his head by about a foot - Rob

 

[Scrit]

I was joking - you missed an m out of one of your mms.

Oops! Still my typewrotteng is mich botter sinze I gut a nww keeboort

Scrat

I was instructed to always take small bites at the job, never one huge lump or the machine would definitely bite back and always 100% concentration (same as with any machine).

I have to ask whether or not that was before the introduction of limiter cutterblocks and whether you were hand feeding with Shaw guards or not. For big rebates I often employ a power feeder and I don't worry about the size of the bite at all, as long as the feed speed is correct and the extraction is working OK it shouldn't be a problem. It is true that I was taught to remove as much waste as possible on the tablesaw or bandsaw first, mainly for longer tooling life I suspect, so a large rebate would often be started off as a mitre cut on the saw - I have to admit the need to do this with my first spindle moulder, but that was a rather arthritic 1 HP unit. Fundamentally hogging away the waste first is no different to hand tool practice.

Scrit

 

[woodbloke]

Scrit - the machine in question was oldish (can't remember the exact type) and it did not have a limited cutter block, all work was fed by hand - no power feed - Rob