Spindle Moulder Scribe And Mould Cutters

[pollys13]

I'm looking into scribe and mould cutters for the spindle moulder. Axminster do scribing cutters for tenoners and also do the matching mould cutter that fits on a 30mm bore spindle block. I'm thinking of a block 100mm x 40mm with 30mm bore. Would a combi block be able to accommodate both types as well as the limiters?Where can I find scribing cutters that would fit on a 100mm x 40mm with 30mm bore block? I think the tenoning scribing cutters can only be fitted on a dedicated tenoning head.
Have spent some time on the net trying to get some clarification, looking into SETs etc, see are really expensive.
I have the Axminster Trade Series WS1000TA spindle. A sliding table extension is available for it,
http://www.axminster.co.uk/square-table ... 0ta-950505
I'm thinking I should use this for scribing the ends of house door rails rather than the table and plate on the table?
Out of curiosity, if the spindles sliding extension tables long fence can pivot like the sliding table fence on my tablesaw.
What use could this feature be used for on the spindle?
Cheers.

 

[custard]

I'm not being rude, but you really should get some proper spindle moulder training. Peter Sefton runs a well regarded short wood machining course, I'm sure others do too.

I'd feel irresponsible giving you bits of knowledge when I suspect there'd still be big gaps in your knowledge of the fundamentals of spindle moulder operation.

 

[RobinBHM]

What sort of joint are you trying to achieve?

House doors will have a long tenon. The scribe cutters you are referring to are designed to go in a 3 head tenoner, where 2 of the heads cut the tenon and the scribe cutter is just machining out the reverse of the profile on the tenon shoulder. The cutters are mounted in a large block of around 300mm diameter so the tenon clears the shaft.

Therefore unfortunately, the scribes wont work in your small block on the spindle.

 

[katellwood]

At one time Axi supplied a cutter that cut both the scribe and mould (i have a pair and they work great) the cutter was inverted through 180 degrees in the block to switch from scribe to mould. However to scribe for house doors you will need a block and spindle shaft that facilitates cutting over the top of the block.

This will also restrict any guarding for the block which if you do not have a tenoning hood will need to be made up and to include facilities for extraction (cutting a tenon can produce a great deal of waste)

There are other ways of making a neat joint without scribing or scribing by hand

Not doors but take a look at my entries on this post which will give you some food for thought

(Caveat don't want to teach people how to suck eggs)

wooden-window-making-t66119.html

 

[pollys13]

At one time Axi supplied a cutter that cut both the scribe and mould (i have a pair and they work great) the cutter was inverted through 180 degrees in the block to switch from scribe to mould. However to scribe for house doors you will need a block and spindle shaft that facilitates cutting over the top of the block.

This will also restrict any guarding for the block which if you do not have a tenoning hood will need to be made up and to include facilities for extraction (cutting a tenon can produce a great deal of waste)

There are other ways of making a neat joint without scribing or scribing by hand

Not doors but take a look at my entries on this post which will give you some food for thought

(Caveat don't want to teach people how to suck eggs)

wooden-window-making-t66119.html

Thanks I read your post a while back. The Axminster cutter, block you mention. Do you mean a vari angle block like this,
http://www.toolandfix.com/trend-industr ... 0wodI5QHZQ
Can you post a photo or two of the block you use?
" cutting a tenon can produce a great deal of waste " I'm intending to cut the tenons on my 16 inch 3hp bandsaw.

 

[pollys13]

What sort of joint are you trying to achieve?

House doors will have a long tenon. The scribe cutters you are referring to are designed to go in a 3 head tenoner, where 2 of the heads cut the tenon and the scribe cutter is just machining out the reverse of the profile on the tenon shoulder. The cutters are mounted in a large block of around 300mm diameter so the tenon clears the shaft.

Therefore unfortunately, the scribes wont work in your small block on the spindle.

Through haunched wedged tenons, twins on the lock and bottom rail. I want to run a mould down the edge of a door stile on a exterior frame and panel house door, as illustrated in the attached photo. I need to make a matching scribe on the tenon to mate with the mould. The stile mould runs from the leading edge of the top rail to the leading edge of the bottom rail.Will also be using a wobble saw, groover or slotter to make the housing for the flat of the raised panel/s.
As I mentioned I'll be making the tenons on my 16 inch 3hp bandsaw.
Cheers.

 

[deema]

Please get some training before leaping into Spindle moulding, they are no more dangerous than any other machine, but equally they need knowledge to both use safely and also to jig your parts properly to maximise the benefits it brings.

To scribe / tennon you really need a proper tennon block, look On Whitehills WEB site, they do a complete range of blocks and cutters. You will also need to buy or make a tennon hood, and also have a sliding table on your spindle moulder. You need a table that is properly secured to your spindle and clamps the stuff down securely. You should not try to do it with some form of sled.

 

[katellwood]

At one time Axi supplied a cutter that cut both the scribe and mould (i have a pair and they work great) the cutter was inverted through 180 degrees in the block to switch from scribe to mould. However to scribe for house doors you will need a block and spindle shaft that facilitates cutting over the top of the block.

This will also restrict any guarding for the block which if you do not have a tenoning hood will need to be made up and to include facilities for extraction (cutting a tenon can produce a great deal of waste)

There are other ways of making a neat joint without scribing or scribing by hand

Not doors but take a look at my entries on this post which will give you some food for thought

(Caveat don't want to teach people how to suck eggs)

wooden-window-making-t66119.html

Thanks I read your post a while back. The Axminster cutter, block you mention. Do you mean a vari angle block like this,
http://www.toolandfix.com/trend-industr ... 0wodI5QHZQ
Can you post a photo or two of the block you use?
" cutting a tenon can produce a great deal of waste " I'm intending to cut the tenons on my 16 inch 3hp bandsaw.

Will photo tomorrow and post

 

[tomatwark]

If you are going to do this as a business I would probably look into buying a small tenoner such as a Multico, which you can put blocks in that will scribe at the same time.

I will give you a better and safer result.

 

[heimlaga]

The traditional way of making what you desire in the hand tool era was to mitre the profiles and make square tennon shoulders.
Scribed shoulders became common only after the advent of spindle moulders and tennoners.

There is nothing wrong with doind this on a spindle moulder but you need a big enough spindle moulder with all the proper equipment and you need to know what you are doing.

The main reason why you cannot put scribing cutters in a standard block is that the standard block has too small diametre. Tennon cutters for making house doors on a spindle moulders are at least 300 mm in diametre to accomodate the entire tennon between the two cutters without the end of the tennon slamming into the spindle.
To run such large cutters without putting too much strain on the 30mm spindle you need a spindle top support. Yoy also need a very solid sliding table and for the sake of your own survival you need a well designed tennoning hood with proper guards.

Theese big cutters also require a very big and solid spindle moulder. The spindle moulder on my Stenberg combination is too lightly built for this sort of work and cannot take a spindle top support.
Once my l'Invincibile T160 or my Jonsered FM-C is rebuilt and ready to run I can start thinking of this sort of work.

 

[pollys13]

If you are going to do this as a business I would probably look into buying a small tenoner such as a Multico, which you can put blocks in that will scribe at the same time.

I will give you a better and safer result.

Ah, OK out of interest what type, model machine should I be looking at, ideally something which is single phase. I don't want to go down the route and expense of various conversion options?

 

[pollys13]

Please get some training before leaping into Spindle moulding, they are no more dangerous than any other machine, but equally they need knowledge to both use safely and also to jig your parts properly to maximise the benefits it brings.

To scribe / tennon you really need a proper tennon block, look On Whitehills WEB site, they do a complete range of blocks and cutters. You will also need to buy or make a tennon hood, and also have a sliding table on your spindle moulder. You need a table that is properly secured to your spindle and clamps the stuff down securely. You should not try to do it with some form of sled.

There is this sliding table that fits my machine. http://www.axminster.co.uk/square-table ... 50505Those steel tenoning heads are preety substantial I don't know if my spindle has enough power to spin them up. I did look into tenoning heads to fix on my machine but didn't make much progress. Making one up out of mdf, ply whatever sounds a little Micky Mouse, flimsy type jobby and am wary of trying.

 

[pollys13]

At one time Axi supplied a cutter that cut both the scribe and mould (i have a pair and they work great) the cutter was inverted through 180 degrees in the block to switch from scribe to mould. However to scribe for house doors you will need a block and spindle shaft that facilitates cutting over the top of the block.

This will also restrict any guarding for the block which if you do not have a tenoning hood will need to be made up and to include facilities for extraction (cutting a tenon can produce a great deal of waste)

There are other ways of making a neat joint without scribing or scribing by hand

Not doors but take a look at my entries on this post which will give you some food for thought

(Caveat don't want to teach people how to suck eggs)

wooden-window-making-t66119.html

Thanks I read your post a while back. The Axminster cutter, block you mention. Do you mean a vari angle block like this,
http://www.toolandfix.com/trend-industr ... 0wodI5QHZQ
Can you post a photo or two of the block you use?
" cutting a tenon can produce a great deal of waste " I'm intending to cut the tenons on my 16 inch 3hp bandsaw.

Will photo tomorrow and post

OK thanks mate.

 

[wide74]

I've got a single phase Sedgwick moulder with sliding table and it will run 300mm twin tenon discs just fine but that is its max. It needs a 20amp type c breaker to get going but once it is its fine. Scary though once those discs are spinning so make sure you keep your limbs out of the way!

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[tomatwark]

Like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MULTICO-TM3-2 ... SwjVVVpTPV

Single phase ones do come up, and Whitehill do the blocks which take scribing cutters.

Sedgewick do a tenoner as well.

If your are making a lot of doors like this go for a tenoner if you are only making one run the moulds and do the scribes by hand.

You only have light weight spindle moulder which won't last long if you are trying to do things like this on it.

As you are looking into going in to business and you could always buy a phase converter which would open up lots of possibilities machine wise, and also most industrial workshops will probably have 3 phase any way.

 

[pollys13]

Like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MULTICO-TM3-2 ... SwjVVVpTPV

Single phase ones do come up, and Whitehill do the blocks which take scribing cutters.

Sedgewick do a tenoner as well.

If your are making a lot of doors like this go for a tenoner if you are only making one run the moulds and do the scribes by hand.

You only have light weight spindle moulder which won't last long if you are trying to do things like this on it.

As you are looking into going in to business and you could always buy a phase converter which would open up lots of possibilities machine wise, and also most industrial workshops will probably have 3 phase any way.

Uum, anyone, any leads on doing the scribes by hand, would help with the cash flow.
Cheers.

 

[PAC1]

Have a look at this scribing-tenons-t35930.html

 

[pollys13]

What about cutting the scribes by hand from metal blanks? Or perhaps someone on the forum has one of those Veil profile grinders for making spindle knives from blanks?

 

[ColeyS1]

I'd say it's defo an advantage if you can learn to efficiently scribe by hand. Even though I've got a tenoner with scriber, sometimes particularly for a small job it's not worth the hassle setting it up. Strange thing is, it's also really enjoyable fitting them by hand

Coley

 

[pollys13]

Have a look at this scribing-tenons-t35930.html

I saw that a while ago thanks.