Spindle moulder for oak windows

[deema]

I've made a few oak Windows and doors for an old chapel, I have a Sedgwick SM4 ii single phase and a Multico tenoner. I wish I have bought the 3 headed Sedgwick tenoner which would have been a better option IMO. The spindle moulder has a sliding table and a power feed. The spindle is about 5.5HP and can cut the rebates in one hit without any issues, however I'm not running the Maggi at full tilt because I can't load and unload it in my own at that speed so I've never tried it flat out.

Like already said, I've found a rebate block, cill block, exandable groover, universal cutter block and a selection of cutters to be all that is required for a one man shop efficient production of Windows and doors. A decent Morticer is a must IMO.

I think if you combine your tooling budget and machine budget you will get a really decent setup as well as the separate blocks you need which will be far more useful for virtually everything you are likely to make. Once the tenoner (scribed tenons), spindle for the mouldings and Morticer are setup you can along with something to cross cut (I use a Wadkin RAS) which doesn't take me very long at all, about 30mins to set all machines from scratch - I know I'm slow compared to many) you can knock doors and windows out extremely quickly as their is no breakdown setup to do.

 

[Handsguy]

Thanks for all your help, it's very useful. I will think twice about the window system and look at readily available tooling. I wonder how often many of you use the tilting function on your SM's, It seems silly not to get a machine that has that function if I am to invest so much on it. I'm not sure I would use it much though.

Regards

 

[custard]

I wonder how often many of you use the tilting function on your SM's, It seems silly not to get a machine that has that function if I am to invest so much on it. I'm not sure I would use it much though.

I've got a tilting spindle but I hardly ever use it, however I use a vari-angle block regularly for furniture applications. Three things to look for in a vari-angle block, get one that tilts to +/- 90 degrees rather than +/- 45 degrees, then you can use it for fielding panels and all sorts of furniture applications, get one that either has a vernier angle setting device or get a digital angle setter to set it up, and finally get one with at least a 50mm blade length, 60mm is even better. Another big advantage of a vari-angle block over a tilting spindle is the way it can easily and accurately be used in conjunction with a ring fence, for adding angles to curved chair and furniture components I find this invaluable.

 

[HOJ]

My spindle will go over to 45, I do use it, mostly for making stair spindles with a stop chamfer, for example.

Custard, the vari-angle block sounds interesting, any further details you could share, please.

 

[heimlaga]

I agree with custard on variable angle chamfer blocks. With such a head you can cut chamfers at whatever angle you need on a machine with no tilt.

I have no spindle tilt on mine. I sometimes wish I had it for odd jobs but if you are going to make only one type of windows and purchase tooling for that purpose you will never ever need it.
A fixed spindle machine is cheaper and required more specialized tooling. A tilting spindle machine is more expensive but requires less tooling. That is the essence of it all.

There are also bolt-on tennoning sleds which fundction as sliding table on a machine without sliding table. They are very common on elderly machines.

Size is an important factor when we are taklking spindle moulders. Bigger is better. Mine has onle a 3hp motor and that is the absolute minimum power. 5-6hp is way better. The heavier and more solid machine the better.

 

[doctor Bob]

I've seen very few oak windows that look good after a year. Most have gone black at the joints, looks bloody awful.

 

[custard]

Custard, the vari-angle block sounds interesting, any further details you could share, please.

I'm only talking from a furniture perspective so I don't want to hi-jack the thread if windows and joinery are the main subject, but here's a typical vari-angle block application in a furniture context. This is the back leg of a chair, the front face of the back leg needs an 8 or 9 degree chamfer to bring it in line with the curve of the crest rail. And the set up to achieve that is a vari-angle block with a ring fence,

The leg is jigged so that the ring fence runs along a template that conforms to the curve of the leg, it's a stopped cut that runs from the top of the leg down to just above the side rail mortice. I'm sure you could rig up something similar with a tilting spindle, but the jig would be much more complicated as there would be an off-set to be factored in and the template would need to be much thicker to get the leg up to where the cutters would engage. However, with a vari-angle block it's all pretty straightforward.

Merry Christmas!

 

[AJB Temple]

Oak is unsuitable for windows! You should tell that to the builders in bygone days. We have a family building in Warwickshire that is mostly oak framed (the rest is stone) and has all oak joinery, including windows, doors and everything else. Some of the windows are stone but the oak ones are about 400 years old and seem to be doing fine so far.

We had a house in Surrey with a Horsham stone roof, tile clad and oak window frames and oak doors. Our present barn in Kent also has oak windows throughout (though everything else is nasty softwood currently). I don't love them but oak is not uncommon.

 

[Jacob]

There are no oak windows 400 years old - in the modern sense of windows with glass and putty etc. There may be oak framed openings with leaded lights, and doors that old, but that's different. Windows (modern) took off with falling glass prices and availability of Baltic softwood from 1700 ish

 

[Phil Pascoe]

AJB - Not uncommon? Warwickshire has gentle weather compared to some areas of the Country. Joinery years ago was made from locally available wood, not what was best. I can show you a gate post in Cornwall that is 40 y. o. an still solid (I put it there) - but small section stuff would be destroyed quick as a damn where I live.

 

[deema]

I also don't have a spindle moulder that tilts and have a variable angle block brilliant block, move tied to about +/- 60 degrees which is enough for everything I've ever made. Never found the need or indeed wished I had a tilting SM.

I have some oak Windows in my house, now five years old and with Osmo oil still look the same as the day I installed them. When they do eventually darken....which they will, they will get a nice coat of white paint on the outside and still retain the oak charm on the inside. Double, or in my case tripe glazing cuts down dramatically the UV which causes the oak to darken.

 

[HOJ]

Custard, thanks for the insight, something I may well add to my range of tooling options.

I also use the tilt on the spindle to produce dowels/rounds, with a radius cutter, If I remember correctly, Chrispy used the same method on a project WIP recently.

As I said before Oak windows must be a Norfolk trend, this is a project I did a couple of years ago, 49 Oak windows, everyone a different size, to fit inside the timber frame, plus the entrance doors.

 

[Stocksy27]

I would look for a really old second hand spindle for your budget, will get a lot more solid machine for your money, aslo agree ditch the window tooling lot of money and if you dont do them often seems a waste, ive always used separate tooling for grooves rebates etc, adjustable bevel block very handy for lots of things, could use it for your cills but make a few passes, leitz do a really good cill block 100mm.