Spindle moulder cutter block

[Kidneycutter]

I have an old lurem single phase spindle moulder with original cutter block and one set of rebate cutters. I would like to upgrade the cutter block so it will accept the euro cutter profile. The spindle is 30mm and there are many cheap ones on eBay , I'm just concerned about how much weight I can put on the spindle safely.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Trevanion]

The spindle is 30mm and there are many cheap ones on eBay , I'm just concerned about how much weight I can put on the spindle safely.

I think pretty much all spindle moulders should be able to handle the aluminium euro blocks with ease, depending on the horsepower of your machine you may be able to run one of Whitehill's steel "Combi-Blocks":
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=60
It would be a good choice as a first block as it will take all standard Euro knives whilst also be able to produce very clean rebated with the spur cutters and carbide knives. They're a little more expensive than the cheap blocks on eBay but I wouldn't really trust anything unbranded as the precision of cheap manufacture is a little questionable.

Even if you just bought a standard Euro block they're not too expensive direct from Whitehill, at least then you have a block you know is dead accurate and safe: https://www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=20

The weight you can put on the spindle is really dictated by the horsepower, I'd say you could run blocks and stacks up to 4KG on a 2HP motor, but they might stuggle cutting at full depth if it's a large block.

 

[katellwood]

This was my first woodworking machine many years ago, a Lurem combination machine.

The spindle was also 30mm (as most are nowadays) and it took normal sized blocks adequately

If you are concerned then get an ali block or a smaller diameter block, that being said the heavier the block the better the cut due to the flywheel effect,

hope this helps

 

[Kidneycutter]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a complete newbie to the spindle moulder although I have used it for rebates. I normally use a router table, homemade but quite effective, for mouldings. Are there any books or online info for beginners. I don't really understand the limiters and wether you need a matching pair for each set of cutters.
Is it difficult to profile you're own cutters... I'm pretty handy and have a wholesome workshop alas no profile grinder or three phase!

 

[Jacob]

Weight of the block doesn't matter much they aren't that much heavier than a TS blade but the size of the cut does. So a big block would be usable with a small motor but slightly redundant as there might not be enough power to drive a big cutter.
Rebate block first. They are very useful but also the safest and easiest to work with and ideal for beginners to get their hand in with.
Limiters are a recent innovation and in theory will prevent you losing a finger - just getting a nasty cut instead. Not needed on a rebate block as there is very little blade sticking out to start with.

 

[Kidneycutter]

How difficult is it make your own profiles? I work on estate with a lot of old properties, and most have quite unusual window mouldings which I can't find suitable router cutters for.
Is it possible to make a corresponding scribe cutter - I've just looked up profile grinding wheels for a standard bench grinder which are 13&6 mm . How do you cut with out blueing the steel...slowly I guess
Do they need to be balanced and the limiters - do I really need limiters or is this just hse overkill?

 

[katellwood]

If your new to spindle moulding you are diving in the deep end when you cannot swim. I would strongly suggest some sort of course as they are arguably the most dangerous of all woodworking machines
In recent years new limiter blocks and the requirement of a false fence have made their use much safer ( as an apprentice we had big square blocks where the cutter bolted on the side with T nuts and if one bit you it would take your arm off)

old whitehill "safety" blocks facilitated grinding your own cutters more effectively but balance is essential (especially on a light-weight machine as its likely to jump round the workshop on startup) however these blocks now do not follow health and safety regs as the cutter is only held in place by friction with no safety pin.

finally as the cutter strikes the timber at an angle the shape of the grind will not match the shape of the mould

you would do well to get a copy of this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spindle-Moul ... 1006.m3226

or the more up to date version

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spindle-Moul ... :rk:3f:0

 

[Trevanion]

How difficult is it make your own profiles? I work on estate with a lot of old properties, and most have quite unusual window mouldings which I can't find suitable router cutters for.

This video is a good one on hand grinding Euro Knives (I think it's the only one too):
[youtube]EpnTODGwMJA[/youtube]


Since you're a beginner I highly suggest watching this video by the late great Roy Sutton, Jam packed with useful information and it's still all relevant despite being quite an old video:
[youtube]4n6yTHMBX54[/youtube]

Do they need to be balanced and the limiters - do I really need limiters or is this just hse overkill?

Whilst you could easily run the block with a pair of blank limiters there are a few benefits of having them. This video touches on that subject better than I could describe it:
[youtube]mylYGzZC2yU[/youtube]

 

[Mike Jordan]

I will add my voice to that of Kattelwood, treat the machine with the greatest respect and caution. I have been using them for years and would urge you to start in the shallow end with a modern block with location pins and ensure that you use only modern cutter and profile sets!
Don't be fooled into thinking that you can dispense with any of the guards and safety devices. These are fubulous tools and will enable you to do all manner of things but they are lethal in untrained hands. You can learn a lot from reading and taking a basic course. Making your own cutters is for the more experienced user not for beginners! Appleby Woodturning of Swadlincote can be found on the net and are very keen on price.
I believe that you would be well advised to buy a limiter block and one or two cutter sets rather than one of the combined kits with several sets of cutters and a block. The cutters supplied are unlikely to be ones you will need.

The photo shows two my blocks, the 125mm one in the front is fitted with cutters number 125 . Suitable for a number of small moulds and used by most users. Your money won't be wasted on a set of those.

 

[Jacob]

Excellent 1st vid. Exactly what I do (with variations!). Pleased to see him 'offering up' to test for fit at the cutting angle. This step is absolutely crucial for accuracy and minor adjustments can be made at this last stage.
"offering up" is a useful and vital technique throughout woodwork (and other crafts) and maybe could be written up as a subject on its own.
I usually make a pair but sometimes don't bother and just balance the one as best I can. OK for small cutters with little weight variation.
But as Mike says - get the hang of it first and become competent using all the safety recommendations, before you venture out. :shock:
PS and I always use two push sticks if not using a power feed. Hands always well away from cutters whatever goes wrong. n.b. I first picked up the 2 push stick thing on this forum many years back - best tip I ever picked up!

 

[RogerS]

Katellwood, Trevanion and Mike Jordan have all given you excellent advice and I can only re-iterate the safety aspect. I don't know where you live but do urge you to consider a days training with someone like Peter Sefton if you are within hailing distance of Malvern. There are others dotted about the country.

Even a rebate block could catch you unawares and drag your hand in....

The other thing would be to look at the HS&E site as they know a lot about using these things safely. Unlike others I could mention.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Even a rebate block could catch you unawares and drag your hand in....

Not if you use a power feed or two push sticks. I suppose you could jam your hand into a power feed if you were really stupid, say trying to flip something stuck, so two push sticks on the side is a good idea even with a power feed

The other thing would be to look at the HS&E site as they know a lot about using these things safely. Unlike others I could mention.

By all means . Actually my personal safety standards are a bit stricter (and safer) than HS regs which are advisory, discursive, not always prescriptive, but better than nothing.