Spindle Moulder Advice

[stuartpaul]

snip

How I would transfer the same level of caution to an employee is another question altogether.

Just out of interest Jacob do you have employees?

 

[Jacob]

Is this your last post - again?

 

[Jacob]

snip

How I would transfer the same level of caution to an employee is another question altogether.

Just out of interest Jacob do you have employees?

Not at the mo. I'm virtually retired. But if I was going to inflict my alternative methods on employees I'd be very circumspect about it - perhaps consult HSE.

 

[RogerS]

Is this your last post - again?

So there we have it, Jacob.

You have been caught BANG TO RIGHTS ! Clear for all to see. Your constant refusal to answer those two simple questions shows you up to be what you are. A troll. Nothing more and nothing less. Either that or you simply have not got the guts to admit you were wrong. Man up for once.

Anyway, it's once more off to the Ignore dump for you.

Your posts are too highly questionable as to veracity or accuracy for my taste.

 

[Jacob]

You keep promising to ignore me. Do it now - don't wait a moment longer!

 

[rhrwilliams]

Going slightly back to the original topic , I thought I'd let everyone know despite it probably not being most sensible idea , I've bought the spindle moulder anyway as I couldn't resist the lure of it !

If I still have my hands in tact after using it I'll let you all know how I get on

On a serious note , it's missing a guard and I obvuously need to get this sorted before using it , I'll post a pic up in the next couple of days and perhaps people could help me source a replacment or I can get one made - seems to be quite straightforward to make a replacement .

 

[RogerS]

Good call! You're looking for a Shaw guard but if you fit a power feed then the Shaw guard becomes redundant.

 

[blackrodd]

Looking at you're original post, glad you have bought the spindle, were you able to have a demo and the chance to buy any up to date tooling?
As you are able to see by previous posts The moulder needs treating with respect and a day with someone like Peter Sefton, if he's not too far away, will pay dividends as you should then have some knowledge of what you should do, or not to do!
It could be said, The Shaw guard is really a pressure system, which when set up properly, holds the timber stock, being worked, snug and securely in place, against the fence.
With the shaw guard in place, you're hands now have no need or purpose to be near the cutters or cutter block.
Even for trial/test cuts, the shaw guard will be in place, and the stock is fed continuously, nose to tail, when possible, and do not use a push stick on end of the the final piece, use another sacrificial piece.
You're starting with a decent make, which is halfway there.
HTH Regards Rodders

 

[heimlaga]

Great!
A spindle moulder is a very useful machine. Treat it with the respect it deserves and it will be fairly safe too.

 

[RobinBHM]

Going slightly back to the original topic , I thought I'd let everyone know despite it probably not being most sensible idea , I've bought the spindle moulder anyway as I couldn't resist the lure of it !

Congratulations on buying the spindle moulder They are very useful machines. Of course it depends on the type of work you are planning to use it for, but I would suggest a 125mm x 50mm rebate block to be one of the most useful blocks, and a relatively safe piece of tooling as a start, as it has a circular block, with minimum cutter projection.

Of the universal blocks, the Whitehill 96 x 55 is better than a standard euro block as the blanks can have a larger profiling area. I use http://www.cutterprofilers.co.uk/html/c ... _list.html for profile grinding, prices are from £60.00+vat including limiters and they are done on a cnc grinder. Be careful about universal blocks / cutters, the cutters may be different thicknesses and some blocks only take some thicknesses -not so universal then!

I havent used shaw guards for many years so cant advise on those, but my tips would be, read up about false fences and use where you can, place a large block of wood on the table when starting the machine with a new set up and when using a set up piece make sure it is quite a bit longer than the infeed fence so you can fully grip the piece of timber and ease it from the cutter once youve done your trial cut.

Also congratulations on a thread more controversial than sharpening

 

[Peter Sefton]

The spindle is a great piece of kit, I think the old shaw guards are so much better than the newer ones. If you can find some old Wadkin or simular they should serve you well (If they will fit)

The power feed is a great bit of kit if you can afford one, I wouldn't be without mine.

The HSE videos may be of help, I would recommend you put the shaw guard in place before breaking through the false fence (from memory this is not done in the video!) Do make sure the guard won't come into contact with the cutters when pushing back the fence!

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/video.htm

Cheers Peter

 

[James-1986]

Now, if we could perhaps return to the two questions ?

1) What exactly in the codes makes precise copying difficult, impossible, impossibly expensive (not that I agree with those last three comments either) ?

We have been talking mainly about limiters, for example. Limiters don't come into contact with the stock so how in God's name can you come up with your statement above?

You have to grind 4 bits of metal rather than 1. The limiters need to be accurately ground in relation to the cutters to comply with the regs. You need expensive machinery if you want to do it yourself. The block needs to be a very precise fit on the spindle if you want it cutting on two.

My Wadkin safety blocks are far cheaper and far quicker to setup than modern chip limited tooling; end of story. The only way you can get the best out of modern tooling is with the correct grinding and setting machines, simply not worth it for the small timers like me.

 

[Jacob]

Looking at you're original post, glad you have bought the spindle, were you able to have a demo and the chance to buy any up to date tooling?
As you are able to see by previous posts The moulder needs treating with respect and a day with someone like Peter Sefton, if he's not too far away, will pay dividends as you should then have some knowledge of what you should do, or not to do!
It could be said, The Shaw guard is really a pressure system, which when set up properly, holds the timber stock, being worked, snug and securely in place, against the fence.
With the shaw guard in place, you're hands now have no need or purpose to be near the cutters or cutter block.
Even for trial/test cuts, the shaw guard will be in place, and the stock is fed continuously, nose to tail, when possible, and do not use a push stick on end of the the final piece, use another sacrificial piece.
You're starting with a decent make, which is halfway there.
HTH Regards Rodders

Agree but I see a push stick as a general purpose sacrificial piece. The standard pattern has that knuckle cut-out which makes it a hold down as well as a hold in - in fact you end up using them like two hands without fingers. :shock: They also extend your reach for and aft so you can get a longer through movement without stopping and starting as you change hands. There's more to them than meets the eye.

 

[Peter Sefton]

If using push stick on the spindle moulder make sure they pass the cutter block on the outside of the shaw guard!

I worked in a workshop where they were banned on the spindle moulder. They told me of a case where the push stick was kicked back after contact with the block and ended up splitting and shooting up inside the workers arm. This is why I won't let them be used on my planer and rather use a full size spare to push the last piece through the spindle between shaw guards in both directions or better still the power feed.

Cheers Peter

 

[RobinBHM]

I have always believed heavy duty spindle moulders should come with power feed units as part of the package but only very top end machines, such Martin and SCM have such an option. No joinery company would use a spindle without a power feed. It is so easy to set that it is worth using for running a single piece.

A power feed transforms the use of a spindle moulder in consistency, ease of use, safety etc. Once youve used a power fed spindle you wouldnt want to go back to pressure guards. Working with shaw guards it is impossible to maintain a constant feed rate and actually pretty difficult to not stop during hand changeover.

 

[RogerS]

Now, if we could perhaps return to the two questions ?

1) What exactly in the codes makes precise copying difficult, impossible, impossibly expensive (not that I agree with those last three comments either) ?

We have been talking mainly about limiters, for example. Limiters don't come into contact with the stock so how in God's name can you come up with your statement above?

You have to grind 4 bits of metal rather than 1. The limiters need to be accurately ground in relation to the cutters to comply with the regs. You need expensive machinery if you want to do it yourself. The block needs to be a very precise fit on the spindle if you want it cutting on two.

My Wadkin safety blocks are far cheaper and far quicker to setup than modern chip limited tooling; end of story. The only way you can get the best out of modern tooling is with the correct grinding and setting machines, simply not worth it for the small timers like me.

But you can get a set of cutters and limiters ground for a very reasonable price from guys like NLM. You don't need to have the machines yourself.

The question was what in the codes made precise copying impossible. The answer is nothing. Jacob is wrong. End of.

 

[RogerS]

If using push stick on the spindle moulder make sure they pass the cutter block on the outside of the shaw guard!

I worked in a workshop where they were banned on the spindle moulder. They told me of a case where the push stick was kicked back after contact with the block and ended up splitting and shooting up inside the workers arm. This is why I won't let them be used on my planer and rather use a full size spare to push the last piece through the spindle between shaw guards in both directions or better still the power feed.

Cheers Peter

A good point, Peter. Although I swear I read one member saying how good push sticks were but forgetting to add your key piece of information.

 

[Jacob]

If using push stick on the spindle moulder make sure they pass the cutter block on the outside of the shaw guard!

I worked in a workshop where they were banned on the spindle moulder. They told me of a case where the push stick was kicked back after contact with the block and ended up splitting and shooting up inside the workers arm. This is why I won't let them be used on my planer and rather use a full size spare to push the last piece through the spindle between shaw guards in both directions or better still the power feed.

Cheers Peter

I think that story is totally improbable. I can safely poke my plywood push stick into the block and it just gets neatly trimmed. And I poke it between the shaw guard and the fence if necessary. Absolutely no problem, as safe as houses. They often get chopped or trimmed and I make a new set
Your story may be anecdotal and perhaps based on a plastic push stick as these can shatter and splinter. Cheap plywood just gets frayed and chewed.
There are a lot of horror stories around woodwork machinery but some of them are fantasy.

PS the push sticks I am talking about are the standard pattern as per image below but made of ply. Impossible to injure yourself with the handle end. Perhaps your story was about someone using a bit of thin lath picked up in the workshop - not the same thing at all.

PSA I'm very pleased with my push-stick system and would highly recommend it. Copy a set like the one above using 1/2" cheap ply. No point in using better material as you actually want it to fray and be chewed rather than thrusting back at you. MDF might be too weak and break if you force it, plastic not good, solid wood variable. I don't know - some trial and error could be useful, but cheap ply certainly is safe.

 

[Jacob]

I have always believed heavy duty spindle moulders should come with power feed units as part of the package but only very top end machines, such Martin and SCM have such an option. No joinery company would use a spindle without a power feed. It is so easy to set that it is worth using for running a single piece.

A power feed transforms the use of a spindle moulder in consistency, ease of use, safety etc. Once youve used a power fed spindle you wouldnt want to go back to pressure guards. Working with shaw guards it is impossible to maintain a constant feed rate and actually pretty difficult to not stop during hand changeover.

I agree with all that but in the absence of power feed using push sticks (as per my earlier post) gives you a longer reach, more control and a steadier throughput without changing hands so much, so the end product is better. They are like arm extensions.

 

[ColeyS1]

The armadillo block doesn't even need limiter knives :lol: