SPIERS AYR infill plane

[jimi43]

As is normal around here DEREK COHEN of this very parish is your friend...and has some wonderful ideas on that blog.

I made mine out of a piece of thread I found on something in my "junk" pile and drilled out and turned down an old plumb bob as the brass source:

Then I just put a groove in it to tart it up a bit...

I haven't tried knurling yet...but I've kind of got used to this little "bob knob" as I call it!

....and after all...mine was missing so many bits...but it seems to work ok with a QS iron...

You don't have that problem...with the superb WARD steel...wait till you hone that baby up! :shock:

For your one...I would tend to go a bit further and try to get an original or have one made similar to the original...I'm sure someone on here is more than capable of making one for you close to the original that you would never tell.

Did you clean up the sides a bit yet? Don't go crazy with the polishing...the natural patina of the plane might be lost. The sole however can be lapped without any problems...you could see if it is dovetailed from the bottom too.

I am still amazed that you got it so cheap but I am made up for you my friend as I know you have been itching for one of these beauties for simply ages. I do hope it lives up to your expectations...I'm sure it will.

Watch out though...this can be a very expensive slope but if you are prepared to wait...bargains are out there. :wink:

Jim

 

[jimi43]

Actually Chris...looking more closely at your iron picture...I can just make out the "P" of Henry Payne so your iron (if original...which I'm pretty sure it is)...would date post 1843...

Ward & Payne, of Sheffield.
David Ward and Henry Payne formed this partnership about 1843, and
were sawmakers, edge tool makers (including turning tools and
carving tools), joiners' tool makers, etc.

An early Spiers but mid to late 19C as I first thought.

Jim

 

[jimi43]

Also I dug up this picture of the "Norris" style ACME type (though not true ACME) thread....

I'm willing to bet that your thread is NOT this type...but the finer one as on my Scottish panel.

Jim

 

[adidat]

ok jim went and cleaned the stamps up with my garyflex block. underneath all that grime there are some nice stamps.

blade

chip breaker

and the numbers on the back of the blade

so it looks like a W and P and the two hammers over an anvil.

look at that edge, not a curve in sight

clearly j.smith (maybe jim :duno cared for his plane

also just found out that photobucket rotates images automatically

cant find any blue tack at the moment to do an exploration mission to discover the thread.

adidat

 

[Richard T]

This is very interesting Jim - so it seems that truly square thread is a Norris thing; now I come to think of it, the thread on Mr. Arnold's Norris is the squarest I've ever seen. Really looks the part as heavy, Victorian, English engineering.

Spiers, however, has that lighter touch. Scotch mist and all that. From what I've seen it resembles the profile in very early Record clamps. A rounded profile on top. Whereas Acme is "off square" - flat top and gully bottoms but with walls of an obtuse angle. I've read that the primary use of acme is in lathe lead screws - it's off squareness to ease the dropping in of the half nut every time it is engaged for each pass.
Now I think about it I don't think I've ever seen acme used in any other application other that that that needs to have a half nut dropped in; lead screws, quick release vices ...

 

[dickm]

As will be obvious from the pics, my Spiers is a user, not a collector. And it has a Sorby iron, not a Ward, which may tell something about its age. The clamp screw is a pretty basic design, with the rounded-top thread.

 

[adidat]

**** is it possible for some measurements of the screw? also what is the end like?

adidat

 

[Richard T]

**** wrote: " my Spiers is a user, not a collector"

It's still just as gorgeous though. A plane that ain't used is pretty much er, useless.

 

[dickm]

**** wrote: " my Spiers is a user, not a collector"

It's still just as gorgeous though. A plane that ain't used is pretty much er, useless.

My feelings exactly, and it does a really nice job. Well worth the tenner paid for it, IMHO

 

[dickm]

**** is it possible for some measurements of the screw? also what is the end like?

adidat

PM sent.

 

[adidat]

And they are saying that the original iron was WARD and tapered....at this time which I did not know...you learn something new every day!

=D> =D> =D>

Now....get that bad boy shavin'!!! 8)

Jim

jim, i just measured the blade thickness the sharp end is about 4.1mm and that thickness carries on to the bottom of the slot give or take .05mm. near the stamped 11 its 3.4mm and near the top its about 4mm.

so i assume that this is a parallel iron? :duno:

whats this mean?

also as far as i can tell that this is one piece of metal instead of 2 like most other woodies and older planes. it really is a nice iron under the chip breaker its perfectly clean, cant wait to get it cleaned up.

also can i say a massive thanks to Dickm who behind the scenes is providing me with excellent info.

adidat

 

[Richard T]

I think this means it's parallel where it matters - not strictly parallel all the way up but makes no difference when comes to use. The mouth gap will never get wider with sharpening as the business end is parallel.

I have a few of these (2") ; a Ward, Nurse a Marples and an Ibbotson and they are all destined for smoothers.

 

[jimi43]

This is most interesting...

As a user and not necessarily a professor of infillnology....I was of the understanding that the chant "taper - woodie"....."infill - parallel" was the only one to be heard in the toolshop. :mrgreen:

It was difficult enough to conceive a standard tapered iron in an infill....and now you're trying to tell me there is a kind of "taperell" iron!

Scratches head and goes back to bed........ #-o

Jim

 

[Richard T]

It's either taperlell or parpered ... I think taperlell's the safest.

When I can find my camera I'll take some photos of a slim Nurse. :shock:

 

[adidat]

:? :? :-k :-k :duno:

Surely its parallel but due to early manufacturing processes its a bit slim in the middle, maybe it was a Friday afternoon job?

but i know one thing fro sure your confusing me

adidat

 

[Richard T]

Sorry for the confusion - this is how my Nurse is:

Parallel from here to here - (if a little blurry ... dammit)

- and tapered from here to here as usual.

It's probably just a happy accident, I don't suppose for a moment it was designed for an infill but it will certainly do.

Maybe its age has something to do with it - not that I know anything about the dates of Nurse marks but this looks old to me

I'm sure the other Nurse marks I have seen are C. Nurse or Charles Nurse ...

 

[jimi43]

:? :? :-k :-k :duno:

Surely its parallel but due to early manufacturing processes its a bit slim in the middle, maybe it was a Friday afternoon job?

but i know one thing fro sure your confusing me

adidat

Hi Chris

In the early days of infill planes, the woodie type of iron fixing and setting was used...a wedge:

This relies on a wedge shaped piece of wood acting against a tapered iron which locks the latter in place.

The downside of this is that as you grind the leading edge of the iron...the thickness reduced, and the mouth opened up as the iron edge moved back from the front of the mouth.

The transition to a lever cap meant that the locking of the iron relied not on wedge interlock but rather two contact points...the front of the lever cap and the screw point. Therefore a parallel iron could be used.

The two iron types compared:

The top is the tapered iron found in wedge systems...the bottom a parallel.

The profile nearer the edge is more pronounced:

I don't see the need for an iron which has a parallel section under the lever cap followed by a tapered front.....and I would dearly love to see one and find out why they existed....some transitional plane?

Does this help?

Jim

 

[jimi43]

AH!!! Richard!

The parallel post (or was it a tapered post)!!!!! :mrgreen:

That explains it!

Dozy sleepy me!

The parallel leading edge with the tapered rear is obviously for wedged infills (and presumably woodies)...to get over the above-mentioned problem with tapered irons...the grinding/mouth opening problem.

With a taper/parallel configuration the wedge still works but the parallel front means that you can grind and still have the same mouth opening!

Wonderful! :idea:

(there now follows a series of posts from others saying...didn't you know about the taperels Jim?!!!)

Thank you Richard! A picture is worth a thousand words! =D>

Jim

 

[toolsntat]

i wanted it but i was at work or something, so i didnt bother as that one was listed properly i thought it would go for £80 or something, not £35 :roll:

havent you got any answers for me andy?

adidat

Dare say the other bidder would have gone more for it but who knows? It always wrankles me when I watch summat and miss the ending with it selling for next to nowt :roll:

Looking at your pics I would guess that the owner could have (not long after having it) took the screw out when sharpening it or summat and dropped it in the "black hole" which is the workshop floor :twisted: :roll:

Maybe its age has something to do with it - not that I know anything about the dates of Nurse marks but this looks old to me

I'm sure the other Nurse marks I have seen are C. Nurse or Charles Nurse ...

Have a closer look at the trade mark above the Nurse Richard and I think there is a good chance it is a little tubby John Bull who was used by Hearnshaw Brothers . Probably not made by Nurse but stamped for them in production.
Dates for C.Nurse&Co 1887-1937
Hearnshaw 1881-1961>

Andy

 

[Richard T]

Aha. Thanks for that Andy. Must get me some corodip.