Spax Screws

[Mike.C]

Hi, probably a stupid question to most of you, but what is the difference between Spax Screws, as sold by Axminster http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/1/prod ... 464116.htm and other screws?

While on the subject of screws, i have noticed that Sir Norm often uses square head drive screws. Has anyone tried these, and if so are they any good?
When i was in the US, i was talking to someone about them, and apparently one of their good points is when used with a drill/driver, the screwdriver bit hardly ever jumps off the head of the screw. He also said that you only need one screwdriver bit, because one size fits all. Has anyone else found this to be true?
I remember seeing them in a old Screwfix catalouge, but they had very limited sizes.

Cheers

Mike

 

[WellsWood]

Hi Mike,
Spax screws have a special serrated edge to the first few threads, it's designed to help prevent splitting when used without a pilot hole. They are extremely well priced from Axminster and work well, I use them almost exclusively these days.
The link you posted is to the "T-star" version, which as far as I know is the same as Torx, the drive recess is a straight sided six point affair rather like a cross between an allen head and pozi. See this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

Hope this helps.
Mark

 

[Scrit]

Hi, probably a stupid question to most of you, but what is the difference between Spax Screws, as sold by Axminster http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/1/prod ... 464116.htm and other screws?

As said they don't need polit holes for softwood or sheet materials, although I'd still pilot on hardwoods. The other screw to look at which is gaining wide trade acceptance is the Reisser screw.

While on the subject of screws, i have noticed that Sir Norm often uses square head drive screws. Has anyone tried these, and if so are they any good?

They are Roberts drive screws and I've seen the square drivers in sizes #1, #2 and #3, so I think they'd be a bit like PZD or Torx - you'll still need 2 sizes in 3 lengths to do anything with them! Keeping a screw on the bit is easier with a magnetised bit holder. One minus to the square drive I've found is that they don't permit as much cam-out as a PZD

Scrit

 

[Shady]

I'd second the comments on Spax - they're darned good. I got one of the trade packs from Axminster, and have found them excellent. Sharp enough that your battery operated drill will get significantly longer life using them, too.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

They are Roberts drive screws and I've seen the square drivers in sizes #1, #2 and #3 Scrit

Not quite I think, Scrit. There are square drive and Robertson drive. Robertson drive are superior to square drive although the former are rare even in the US-- I think the Robertson drive were invented by a Canadian, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The Robertson drive has a tapered square hole (cut-off pyramid like) and the advantage is that the bit doesn't get locked in. I find square drives have that locking in problem. Both drive types I believe come in no. 1, 2, and 3 drive so it's not one-size fits all.

I've resisted moving over to either type for two reasons:
1. They aren't particularly elegant in show work,
2. Few people have either Robertson or square drive screwdrivers, but everyone's got Philips, Pozidrive or straight bladed ones. The Philips and Pozidrive tend to cam-out, but I can live with that.

I seldom use slotted screws nowadays particularly in contemporary work-- I reserve them for antique restoration or for better quality repro work. This means a box of 200, 1-1/2" C/S steel slotted might last me nearly a decade, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[Scrit]

The confusion over the nomenclature is interesting. I've bought some Robertson square drive screws in the past from Square Screws UK and they seem to treat the descriptions interchangeably. Square drive screws have the advanvantage of being, in effect, a security screw as the drives don't come on a Swiss Army knife......

Sgian, any idea whether the drive bits are interchangeable?

Scrit

 

[Sean the amateur]

When I lived in Canada, I was introduced to Robertson screws and their drivers which came in two sizes for DIY.

When I lived in the USA, I found square drive screws which came, again, in two sizes. The Roberstson drivers fitted the US square head screws just fine and there never seemed to be any difference.

It is possible that Murricans use the term square head because Mr. Robertson was a 'furriner' rather than a Murrican.

Sean

 

[PowerTool]

Trend pocket hole screws are square-drive heads.Have had no problems with them,although they are difficult to find in lengths other than 1" and 1 1/4" (designed for 12mm and 18mm boards) so have been using flat head pozidrives on larger section timber.

Andrew

 

[johnelliott]

I ordered a bunch of spax screws from Axminster a couple of years ago. When they arrived I realized I had mistakenly ordered the torx type. Fortunately I had some torx bits and started using them. Since then I have used Torx screws exclusively (except when using pocket screws which are square drive).
On occasions I have to use pozidrive, and am reminded then of how much better the Torx type are.
BTW, I use lots of screws.
Also BTW, Bosch integrated appliances such as dishwashers and regrigeration now require the use of Torx screwdrivers.

John

 

[Scrit]

So do Ford Transits!

Scrit

 

[Paul Chapman]

And some of the screws on the Peogeot 205

Paul

 

[Jake]

On occasions I have to use pozidrive, and am reminded then of how much better the Torx type are.

I find Torx screws really irritating - all that fiddling around to get the bit engaged rather than just relying on 'cam-in' once the bit is somewhere near the head of the screw.

 

[johnelliott]

On occasions I have to use pozidrive, and am reminded then of how much better the Torx type are.

I find Torx screws really irritating - all that fiddling around to get the bit engaged rather than just relying on 'cam-in' once the bit is somewhere near the head of the screw.

In that case I shall have to insist that you use Pozidrives.

I, however, find the ability to place a screw on the end of the bit and have it stay there while I place it in a quite inaccessible bracket etc invaluable, and shall stick with the Torx

John

 

[Losos]

Chris,
Like most people have mentioned the Spax screws are fantastic. I now use them almost exclusively. I find the Torx head is much better as well. On the odd occasion when I want to use up some of the Pozi or Supadriv head screws that I still have I find them a real pain.

Jake,
I guess it's horses for courses, but the idea of 'cam in' doesn't do much for me. If it goes in that easy it must come out even easier IMHO

BTW people, don't even think about Philips head - The reason why they cam out all the time is 'cos the four 'blades' are actualy not parallel, so it's almost inevitable you'll get cam out. Pozi & SupaDriv are much better in that respect.

 

[Jake]

Jake,
I guess it's horses for courses, but the idea of 'cam in' doesn't do much for me. If it goes in that easy it must come out even easier IMHO

I have never had a screw cam out with the impact driver I use - and that's for thousands of screws.

 

[Jake]

In that case I shall have to insist that you use Pozidrives.

I may just choose to obey you.

I, however, find the ability to place a screw on the end of the bit and have it stay there while I place it in a quite inaccessible bracket etc invaluable, and shall stick with the Torx

Yes, I can see that's an advantage in those cases - a magnetic bit holder gets me most of the way there, a torx head would be better. Still, I'd only use them in those instances - too impatient otherwise.

 

[Nigel]

Andew wrote,

Trend pocket hole screws are square-drive heads.Have had no problems with them,although they are difficult to find in lengths other than 1" and 1 1/4" (designed for 12mm and 18mm boards) so have been using flat head pozidrives on larger section timber.

Kreg do 2" and 2 1/2" Pocket hole screws with course thread which I have just picked up from Homewood in Worthing

Nigel

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Sgian, any idea whether the drive bits are interchangeable?Scrit

I'm not sure Scrit. The shape of the drive is different, the Robertson being slightly tapered and the other not. Perhaps the taper in the Robertson is slight enough that square drive bits work OK and vice-versa.

I do know that the square bits get jammed in the drive of the screw head whereas I find the Robertson drives don't have that problem. If you're using a click in magnetic drive tip on a screw gun the blasted thing gets left behind as you pulled the gun away to go to the next screw-- a time waster. There are, of course, tip holders that lock the bit in which work much better, but then sometimes the gun or drill has to be wriggled a little to free the bit.

I've never had any of those wee irritants to deal with whenusing Robertson drive bits. The drill tip lifts out nice as pie every time.

It's been about three years since I had to drive either. I don't miss them really as neither is particularly attractive in show work and I can live with a slight tendency to cam out with Pozidrive. To almost completely eliminate cam out requires creating a proper clearance hole, pilot hole and countersink when needed-- there are plenty of all-in-one bits out there designed for doing that fairly adequately. Lots of people prefer, or try, to omit the pre-boring stage of the process hence the cam out problem. In my experience, and for the most part, the cam out problem seems to be largely self inflicted by the worker choosing to omit a process. Slainte.

 

[Losos]

Jake
I suspect you're using a 'top end' driver, whereas some of us have to make do with the likes of DeWalt
Also I suspect you're doing all the pilot, clearance, & countersinking that Sgian mentions which also helps.
And finally, with Pozi, and definately with Philips, I think I must be moving the drill as I drive it in which doesn't help

I must admit that a lot of my problems disappeared when I finally got a drill with an adjustable clutch :lol: :lol:

 

[Jake]

Jake
I suspect you're using a 'top end' driver, whereas some of us have to make do with the likes of DeWalt

Nope, an old 12v Elu impact driver I got off Ebay as NOS for £80.

Also I suspect you're doing all the pilot, clearance, & countersinking that Sgian mentions which also helps.

With hardwood, mostly yes.

And finally, with Pozi, and definately with Philips, I think I must be moving the drill as I drive it in which doesn't help

I must admit that a lot of my problems disappeared when I finally got a drill with an adjustable clutch :lol: :lol:

You need an impact driver. They're an order of magnitude better than any drill/driver!