Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Nothing new about it it's just a linisher. :roll:lurker":qzvy9iqn said:
Sorby Edge Pro sharpening system - and current views?
- Thread starter AJB Temple
- Start date
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lurker
Le dullard de la commune
Jacob":29fjypio said:
True
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
It sort of suits you though doesn't it Jacob. Despite being modern, which I appreciate is often not your cup of tea....it does have a certain "chunky old Sheffield" whiff about it doesn't it. It kind of looks and feels like it belongs in the 50's, that's actually one of the things I rather like about it. So I know surface appearance might make one think Jacob is deserting his normal stance....somehow it's not if that makes any sense at all 
I should quickly add in my defence that I in no way mean to suggest you belong in the 50's or smell of Sheffield either, merely turns of phrase
I should quickly add in my defence that I in no way mean to suggest you belong in the 50's or smell of Sheffield either, merely turns of phrase
Corneel
Established Member
I am not familiar with the Sorby. What does it do that something like this can't?
https://www.gereedschappelijk.nl/me...id=601750000&gclid=CNOywdShyMsCFcUocgodXJQC5A
https://www.gereedschappelijk.nl/me...id=601750000&gclid=CNOywdShyMsCFcUocgodXJQC5A
Rhossydd
Established Member
The key to the SPE is the big, solid tool rest with it's accurate and repeatable tool rest that the jigs fit into.Corneel":1gd3b2p5 said:
Once you've used one you'll understand just how well engineered this is and why it's so well respected by woodturners in particular.
Lons
Established Member
It is expensive without a doubt but look for a second hand one and you'll discover two things,
1). Quite difficult to find,
2). still expensive.
That should tell you that most buyers are happy with their purchase or ebay would be flooded with them.
Bob
1). Quite difficult to find,
2). still expensive.
That should tell you that most buyers are happy with their purchase or ebay would be flooded with them.
Bob
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Also the comments on this forum are very telling. Once you've read a few ten's of posts about any given piece of kit, you start to pick up a sort of generic "vibe" about it. I guess the sample size reaches enough critical mass to have some credibility and they tend to go in 1 of three broad directions as far as I can make out. They're either more or less split on opinion, more or less positive or more or less negative. The prevailing opinions are a real indicator of what people think and sure, within that broad church of opinion there will be some justifying their purchase and some with an axe to grind so moving in the opposite direction. But I believe that, though anecdotal, once the opinion count has got high enough, the data is useful because it's basically honest and basically free from commercial bias.
When reading the Sorby PE threads, much like any recent innovation, it kind of gets the thumbs up or down. This is even more pronounced when the kit is perceived as expensive, because it stands out and it demands to be justified....so it had better dam well work! Rather like Festool.
My personal opinion is that the PE is creating a positive vibe and that that opinion is independently verified every time a new one gets reported here. Eventually, those opinions form an avalanche of opinion until it passes as accepted "truth".
When reading the Sorby PE threads, much like any recent innovation, it kind of gets the thumbs up or down. This is even more pronounced when the kit is perceived as expensive, because it stands out and it demands to be justified....so it had better dam well work! Rather like Festool.
My personal opinion is that the PE is creating a positive vibe and that that opinion is independently verified every time a new one gets reported here. Eventually, those opinions form an avalanche of opinion until it passes as accepted "truth".
CHJ
Established Member
My personal appraisal of the PE as a very new user is that it strikes a robust working balance between cost, best possible design and the needs of most woodworkers with a distinct bias to easing the lives of Turners.
- Observations:-
1. It ain't pretty
2. It's just as good if not better than conventional grinder at distributing grinding debris.
3. The design has stopped short of satisfying all aspects of tool shaping and sharpening.
4. It's a significant financial outlay for a Hobby Turner that could have many years of productive turning using tool sharpening methods that are a fraction of the cost.
5. The running costs are significantly higher than a conventional grinder
- Assessments:-
1a. The cost of making it a Festool lookalike would add cost without any practical benefit.
2a. It's easy to mitigate this.
3a. Basically an adjunct to 1a. and would make the added manufacturing cost considerably and disproportionately significant.
4a. For those that have the financial resources it's in the category of "I can afford not to have the niggle component of convectional sharpening."
5a. as 4a.
- Conclusions (In the context of a Turner):-
1. A "Must have", No.
2. A "Nice to Have" Definitely.
3. 'Easier/quicker for Joe average to use' Definitely.
4. 'Better tool for a Sharpening Novice' Yes
5. "Best value for money" No.
6. "Will the financial controller talk me into getting rid of it" No.
Lons
Established Member
:lol: :lol: :lol: That's the bit that stands out for me and speaks volumes.
I was lucky enough to pick one up s/h on another forum from a member who had to give up turning, sad for him but good for me as not quite so much of an investment.
I also have a Tormek T7, 2 grinders, Axi 610 belt/disk sander, belt sander and all the oil, water, and diamond stones anyone would wish for but my SPE is staying put as well!
Bob
AJB Temple
Finely figured
I find it interesting that people who already own a T7 will still go ahead and buy a pro-edge, and I wonder what motivates that decision. My pro-edge is supposed to be arriving today so I will try to take some pictures of what you get and start a novice users review thread when I get time. I have zero experience of sharpening turning tools (not that it is all that daunting).
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
AJB Temple":3myepoec said:
The tormeks were the best bit of kit available for many years, but they are very slow and pretty messy with the water required, the stones also tend to furrow easily if not used carefully or with turning or other gouges.
Then the pro-edge came along and it's a game changer.
I kept my larger tormek for a year or so after getting the pro-edge, thinking I might still find the tormek better for some things, but it was hardly touched in that time and I sold it on, haven't regretted it since
Cheers, Paul
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I've always been mystified by the Tormek; everybody says they are slow, messy, inconvenient, not accurate etc etc so why do they buy them?
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
I also have a Tormek and as Paul says, the PE is a game changer. But I would add that it really only applies in the turners world. I've kept my Tormek for the following reasons:
1) It does a cracking job on the much more refined sharpening needs of bench tools, where the kind of edge Stanford is on about actually matters
2) Kitchen knives - ditto above. In fact knives generally
3) I use it for planar blades and have the appropriate jig
4) I still use it for my favourite bowl gouge fingernail grind because it means zero setup time on the PE. In other words its dedicated for that one grind when not in use for other tools.
5) Due to the slow speed and water its great for any little hand touch up jobs where you don't need jigs and just want to tickle something like a secateurs blade or whatever.
So the Tormek's versatility has saved it for me and it has become yet another member of the sharpening arsenal in my workshop. But for turning, it's butt was kicked by the PE and no mistake.
1) It does a cracking job on the much more refined sharpening needs of bench tools, where the kind of edge Stanford is on about actually matters
2) Kitchen knives - ditto above. In fact knives generally
3) I use it for planar blades and have the appropriate jig
4) I still use it for my favourite bowl gouge fingernail grind because it means zero setup time on the PE. In other words its dedicated for that one grind when not in use for other tools.
5) Due to the slow speed and water its great for any little hand touch up jobs where you don't need jigs and just want to tickle something like a secateurs blade or whatever.
So the Tormek's versatility has saved it for me and it has become yet another member of the sharpening arsenal in my workshop. But for turning, it's butt was kicked by the PE and no mistake.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Jacob":2dxf0nn3 said:
They're slow for shaping (reprofiling a grind ie lots of metal hogging off the classic example being taking a factory square ground gouge to fingernail profile) not for sharpening.
They're not that messy and its easily managed
inconvenient - is in the mind of the user. Coming from hand sharpening, the inconvenience of setting up a bunch of different jigs is nothing compared to sore fingers regrinding a large bevel by hand. Coming from the ease of setting the toolrest on the PE, it looks complicated.
not accurate - that's the one accusation I've not heard because when jigged up it is accurate and in fact from a published information standpoint you can get pretty much any angle you want with all the supporting setup tools etc. That's the one area where the PE is weaker, Sorby don't publish much apart from a useless manual and a few YT vids. Tormek have a huge and well written manual, in fact I would argue its the best written tool manual I've ever seen by some considerable degree. Sorby's is rubbish. However, the tool works, and it doesn't need much explaining save I think a little more on what bevel geometry will result from a given set of changes to the elliptical grinding variables. Tormek are brilliant on published data in that respect whereas Sorby aren't.
Also don't forget that with water cooled you have completely removed any risk of drawing the temper. So, horses for courses again.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
And I think Rhossyd is right too....their marketing has been brilliant. That has clearly had a huge impact on their revenues.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Why sore fingers?Random Orbital Bob":3u6ogmdv said:
Either wear rigger gloves (I do for a lot of woodwork ops) or make a little blade holder ; basically a bit of 2x1 with a saw kerf slot in in one end. This makes hand grinding much more viable as you can put a lot of force into it and if long enough it's a two hander. You could even do a bit of woodwork on it and make it into a nicely shaped comfortable handle.
Lons
Established Member
I'd echo everything Bob said and they're the reasons I've also held on to the Tormek as the edge it can produce is superb, neither do I find it too messy or inconvenient and as I don't do re-grinds on it slowness doesn't affect me.
My turning chisels don't go anywhere near it either as the SPE works perfectly for those.
My turning chisels don't go anywhere near it either as the SPE works perfectly for those.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Jacob":1zahfae1 said:
I'm going back a few years now Jacob. To be honest, my sharpening wasn't very sophisticated back then as weren't my tools. I had (still do) an oil stone with 2 sides, rough and smooth basically, cant remember the grits and everything went on by hand. No sanding belts, nothing. If the chisel got dinged, the whole bevel got done by hand and that's really where the soreness came. Just the sheer graft of removing so much metal with very little abrasive. With hindsight I should have at least got a dry grinder but I had no money, no space, but needed sharp bench tools to renovate houses and build things. I did have a honing guide though
Little metal job that was a hand me down from Dad. Brilliant little gizmo that you just measured the protrusion of the chisel to determine the grind angle. I used to clamp the stone to one of my saw horses, end on, so my knees went either side get a stool or up turned log and start the hands on!So I fully accept my technique was in the dark ages. But my old Stanley block plane would shave end grain like no tomorrow and I cant count the number of bespoke window boards I created by planing a square edge to a curve (to save money on purpose made window boards).
I tell you one thing though, when you had a hard earned edge like that, you didn't half look after it
AJB Temple
Finely figured
Tool has arrived. Set up and used yesterday. Review to follow in due course in separate thread. By the way, they must have improved the instructions as mine were professionally printed in a high quality booklet with crisp photos and proper explanations.
