Solid Oak Cornice Moulding

[Anonymous]

I am trying to source oak cornice profile like this;

It is too big for me to machine. I have found a local moulding specialist who can make it for me but before I commit myself to tooling and setting up costs I thought I'd ask if anyone knows if something along these lines is available off the shelf anywhere.

It's not to match up with anything so can vary from my sketch a little.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Chris Knight]

Brad,
I would have thought it could be cut on a table saw. The cleaning up can be a time consuming chore - depending how much you need of it.

 

[RogerS]

Brad

Excellent article...only just finished reading it...Fine Woodworking Issue 168 feb 2004.. Tells you in detail how to do it on the table saw, jigs etc. Available online here

Roger

 

[Scrit]

Excellent article...only just finished reading it...Fine Woodworking Issue 168 feb 2004.. Tells you in detail how to do it on the table saw, jigs etc.

And just how do you do that safely, legally and with minimal clean-up in a commercial shop, Roger - especially as the crown guard and riving knife need to come off? Sorry to be a dampener, but the table saw requires lots of clean-up and can be just a tad risky.

Anyway I can machine that size as I've got a big enough spindle moulder and I still have my small profile grinder, but it'd probably cost too much . However I've got a few similar knife sets as well, although they're not quite as big as that

Scrit

 

[JFC]

Could you not do that on your spindle moulder in two passes with a 60mm custom cove cutter in a super block (70mm i think)

 

[Nick W]

Get Philly to make you a custom hand plane? It'd only take him a couple of minutes. :lol:

 

[Scrit]

Could you not do that on your spindle moulder in two passes with a 60mm custom cove cutter in a super block (70mm i think)

Yes, but that still requires an 80mm or 100mm high "Super Block" and two sets of cutters - above 55mm and the cutters start to cost a lot more (I pay £25 to £30 for a pair of blanks and you'd need two sets of blanks and limiters). The job is probably better done on a 4/S moulder rather than a spindle.

Scrit

 

[Anonymous]

I use a timber mill to run all my cornice, buy it by the 100-200metres, its an expensive out lay but it saves a lot of setting up time and machining.
Always have a supply of oak, maple, beech, walnut, poplar cornice etc to hand.

 

[JFC]

So thats £60 on cutters and limiters but the super block is an asset once bought so i wouldn't include that in the costs .

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys,

I have refined the design slightly and ordered some from my local mouldings company who have 4-sided moulders. The tooling has cost me £70.00 and there will be a set-up charge each time they run some for me which I have haggled down to £20.00.

By ordering a quantity for stock in each of half a dozen timbers I can keep the price reasonable and save myself a load of time. Every job's going to get the same cornice moulding from now on!

I'm not keen on the table saw method. I don't think it was Norm but I have seen one of our colonial friends demonstrating this technique on the telly and it struck me as intrinsically unsafe, not to mention completely illegal in a commercial shop in Europe! A saw blade is designed specifically to saw wood; abuse of this sort is simply asking for trouble, risking the integrety of the blade and the safety of the operator.

Lecture over!

Cheers
Brad

 

[SlimShavings]

Knowing that us "Muricans are a little scary to be around.what with Dado's and all. You can make that on a table saw easily and safely. Make your self a set of rabbeted boards to hold the board at the angle needed. Or a full cover. Take off small cut, never more than the depth of a tooth. If you use a sharp rip or triple chip its not that bad to clean up. Scraping is best.
Just a thought from a crazy American

 

[Scrit]

Knowing that us 'Muricans are a little scary to be around, what with Dado's and all

And just what makes you think that trenching heads aren't used in trade shops over here? The difference is that they're more commonly seen on radial arm saws - where they can be relatively easily guarded, unlike using them on a table saw where it's a much more difficult proposition. Anyway, you "scary" Americans are all now running for riving knives on your table saws these days - about 50 years after we got them here..... Maybe one day you'll also learn about short rip fences and brakes :roll:

You can make that on a table saw easily and safely.

Alright, so we'll agree to disagree on that one.

Quite apart from the fact that many home shops over here won't actually accommodate a 16ft diagonal across the table saw (to make an 8ft length), the biggest problem I can see with the table saw approach (from a trades perspective) is that it requires an inordinate amount of clean-up time. In other words I was fool enough to try this technique many years ago and was left singularly unimpressed by the amount clean-up time it required to do 10 metres of oak cornice moulding for a kitchen (and the resulting blisters on my thumbs). As an amateur you may have the time to spend your time cleaning up the mess - in the trades we just don't. And every time you feed a length of timber across the saw to shave off another 2mm it's just more time wasted - one reason why the trades prefer spindle moulders to router tables (one cut as opposed to many). But the biggest downer is that putting a circular saw under side pressure like this will result in some of "springing" of the blade (i.e. sideways deflection) meaning a very coarse finish indeed.

And as a final thought circular saw blades are tensioned to withstand pressure in a straight line cut with minimal flexing - I was always under the impression that if you put a circular saw blade under side pressure you could potentially destroy it's tension. In other words forever after it may not run true, which surely makes a mockery of setting up a table saw accurately in the first place.

Scrit

 

[JFC]

Am i missing something here :? I thought you had just bought a spindle moulder Brad . If you have changed the design then why not change it to something you can do yourself on the spindle moulder ?

 

[johnnyb]

i think there is a special rounded blade used in the states, very stiff. not something i would attempt though. far to dicy!! 150mm depth would need a very large blade and a large angle away from norm(no not that norm :roll: )

 

[mel]

brad let me get this right
even thou you have the capability to mould your own cornice , you are buying it in ????????????????????????
do you lack the experience to make it , {as youve only just got your s/moulder } ??????????
also thought that you had another member near you who has sufficient tooling and experience to make it ??????????
so wots happening ????

 

[Anonymous]

You could do it in 2 passes with a 75mm cutter, or 3 with a 50mm. But very fiddly and time consuming.
But why even bother designing-in something which you can't practically make, unless you want to make the proper investment in either the kit, or in having a stock made up for you, or in doing it laboriously by hand?
There are plenty of other options after all.
cheers
Jacob

 

[Dad]

... I don't think it was Norm but I have seen one of our colonial friends demonstrating this technique on the telly ...

I'm fairly certain Norm has used that technique (at least once)...

 

[SlimShavings]

Knowing that us 'Muricans are a little scary to be around, what with Dado's and all

And just what makes you think that trenching heads aren't used in trade shops over here? The difference is that they're more commonly seen on radial arm saws - where they can be relatively easily guarded, unlike using them on a table saw where it's a much more difficult proposition. Anyway, you "scary" Americans are all now running for riving knives on your table saws these days - about 50 years after we got them here..... Maybe one day you'll also learn about short rip fences and brakes :roll:

You can make that on a table saw easily and safely.

Alright, so we'll agree to disagree on that one.

Quite apart from the fact that many home shops over here won't actually accommodate a 16ft diagonal across the table saw (to make an 8ft length), the biggest problem I can see with the table saw approach (from a trades perspective) is that it requires an inordinate amount of clean-up time. In other words I was fool enough to try this technique many years ago and was left singularly unimpressed by the amount clean-up time it required to do 10 metres of oak cornice moulding for a kitchen (and the resulting blisters on my thumbs). As an amateur you may have the time to spend your time cleaning up the mess - in the trades we just don't. And every time you feed a length of timber across the saw to shave off another 2mm it's just more time wasted - one reason why the trades prefer spindle moulders to router tables (one cut as opposed to many). But the biggest downer is that putting a circular saw under side pressure like this will result in some of "springing" of the blade (i.e. sideways deflection) meaning a very coarse finish indeed.

And as a final thought circular saw blades are tensioned to withstand pressure in a straight line cut with minimal flexing - I was always under the impression that if you put a circular saw blade under side pressure you could potentially destroy it's tension. In other words forever after it may not run true, which surely makes a mockery of setting up a table saw accurately in the first place.

Scrit

Scrit
My 1940's table saw already has a riving knife in it, Not quite the same as what you use but not a guard as on modern saws.

As far as clean up I didn't find it that bad but like I said I used small cuts.
I only offered what I said as an opinion to help save the gentleman some money. I'm aware that I don't know his working conditions. He was free to take it or leave it. I saw that it had been briefly mentioned before. They also make router bits here in order to do he same thing.

As far as being a hobbyist. i have been at this for 45 years and last year contracted to work in over 20 states working out of a trailer. I am about to leave for three jobs, One in Dallas, two in Atlanta. I just don't go around blowing my own horn I most;y lurk to see how other people work.
Best
Dave

 

[Scrit]

Still doesn't change the fact, Dave, that this is regarded as an unsafe technique here in the UK which at least one well respected saw maker also frowns on because of its potential to distort blades.

Scrit

 

[SlimShavings]

Still doesn't change the fact, Dave, that this is regarded as an unsafe technique here in the UK which at least one well respected saw maker also frowns on because of its potential to distort blades.

Scrit

i understand that. That is why i did not say it was the only way. And why i said what I said at the start of the post. I've seen the discussions on dado blades and other before. What works for one doesn't always work for others. But It has been presented in several magazines here. Everyone knows us "mricans are a questionable lot

Dave