Small dovetail

[Corset]

I have cut quite a few dovetails before but they have all been with quite large pins. I was attempting last night to cut smaller pins. When i was cutting the tails as i chiseled out the waste my chisel (10mm a two cherries) was squaring up the bottom section of the tail. It appears that the bevel is not angle enough to slide in without damaging the wood.
Should i be looking for a new chisel or is there an alternative. Because of the narrow width i am reluctant to use a coping saw plus it will not help with paring.
I am quite stumped on this but am going for a rematch tonight so any ideas greatfullt recceived although i think i might be ending up with bigger pins.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Corset,
I use a tip I gleaned from David Savage. Buy a couple of cheap chisels. I found a couple of old Marples with plastic handles at a market for a few bob each. They should be narrow (mine are probably 1/4")

Grind them each to a good skew, one to the left, the other to the right, and grind the bevel sides as well as the cutting edge. You will be able to get right into the corners of your joints.

They don't get used very often, but they are a godsend when I need them. I'm off out for the day, but I'll try to remember to take a pic when I get back.

HTH
Steve

 

[Corset]

Thanks, that make sense as i can angle them in and clear the waste out.

 

[Alf]

I have cut quite a few dovetails before but they have all been with quite large pins. I was attempting last night to cut smaller pins. When i was cutting the tails as i chiseled out the waste my chisel (10mm a two cherries) was squaring up the bottom section of the tail. It appears that the bevel is not angle enough to slide in without damaging the wood.
Should i be looking for a new chisel or is there an alternative. Because of the narrow width i am reluctant to use a coping saw plus it will not help with paring.

Ah, could it be you're using a modern "bevel edge" chisel? They're nowt but firmers with the corners knocked and of very little use for London style dovetails. Especially if you're using a saw with a particularly narrow kerf. A few solutions to this one. Firstly, a wider kerfed saw gives you some latitude so you don't need a chisel that has a miniscule/nothing side to it, and maybe get yourself an older bevel-edge chisel from the era when they knew what it what its purpose was. Two, grind down the sides of a chisel to make your own dovetail chisel, like this. Three, consider a Japanese dovetail chisel like this.

One advantage of the expensive LN chisels should be their finer bevels, but coupled with the A2 needing a higher bevel angle you don't get nearly the amount of virtually zero chisel side you should have, which kinda negates the advantage a bit. But a low paring angle (20° grinding angle) and a fine bevel edge in O1 should give more than enough clearance without needing to resort to extreme measures. So on the whole I'd advise picking up an old bevel edge chisel, hone it low and take the easy route.

With respect to David and Steve, skew chisels are generally reserved for half blind dovetails.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Corset]

I think trying to be clever than i actually am is got me into trouble, again.
I made the gap between the tails sockets the width of my chisel (which has a minimum bevel as Alf mentioned) to minimise pfaffing about. This combined with my japanese saw thin kerf means when i am chiseleing out the waste a a tunnelling a chised sized square at the base.
What i should have done is made the width just a bit bigger. I think though i will make a dovetail chisel as i have loads to go. Will i be able to file the sides down as i do not have a grinder?

 

[DaveL]

Will i be able to file the sides down as i do not have a grinder?

Err only if your chisels are high carbon cheese. where are you, I have a grinder that you could have but you will need to pick it up.

 

[Corset]

Sadly no space for grinder but many thanks. I am in Nottingham.
Had a rematch last night and just took my time with a much smaller chisel. I was suprised when i looked closely at the bevels on the chisels that they aren't really beveled at all it is more like the corners are rounded off.
I find it interesting that all the advice on dovetails concentrates on cutting the sides of the pins and tails, which although i havn't quite got sussed is fairly obvious where you have gone wrong (bad cutting and measuring )
Then when it comes to chopping out the waste they all just say and now "just chop out the waste" and this stage is for me the most difficult for me. I either seem to massively undercut it or end with a lumpy ridge.

 

[Alf]

Corset,

Yep, I find chopping/paring the last bit the worst too. I cheat like crazy and fish out a squared-off piece of wood from the off-cuts box and hold the chisel against that. Organised folk make jigs and such, but the principle's the same - use whatever you fancy that helps 'cos no-one'll know.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Steve Maskery]

Corset,
This is what I was on about. Yes, I know they are in poor shape - I don't use them very often.

Cheers
Steve, also in Nottingham