Skelton dovetail saw pass round.

[Mr T]

I saw the Skelton over at Jim's the other day. Very attractive and finely made indeed. Agreed nice to see a new maker in England (Yorkshire even =D> =D> ). I only saw it briefly but hadn't realised it's a rip/dovetail as it seems a fair bit bigger than Jim's TLT and my Gramercy.
If the pass-round is closed never mind, but if I could jump on the end please? I'd be very keen to try it.

Good to see the saw drawing so much interest. Just add your name to the bottom of the list Douglas.

Myself
Jimi43
Berncarpenter
Matthewwh
Bedrock
Doug B
Tobytool
8squared

 

[condeesteso]

Excellent, is it this easy Mr T?

Myself
Jimi43
Berncarpenter
Matthewwh
Bedrock
Doug B
Tobytool
8squared
Condeesteso (Douglas)

 

[Mr T]

Excellent, is it this easy Mr T?

Almost Douglas. You have to PM your address to the previous person on the list, then when you have finished with it, send the saw to the next person or back to Shane if you are the last person on the list.Unfortunately the last on the list does not get to keep the saw!

Chris

 

[jimi43]

Bern has advised me that the saw has arrived safely with him...phew!

Lovely saw..and a huge thanks to Shane for trusting us with this fine tool.

Cheers

Jimi

 

[Berncarpenter]

First let me say a big thank you to Chris for organising the pass round and Shane for the chance to try out No 10 I received the saw yesterday at 11.30 from Jimi in good condition , thanks Jimi for being so prompt to send on. I immediately stopped working on a customers job {sorry Mrs Penny} and spent about 12 hours putting the saw through its paces.

On opening the box my first impressions were - Wow its beautiful , the most finely crafted saw that ive ever seen. Must have stood there gazing at it for a good 10 minutes . Shane you are a very talented craftsman indeed.

I think Chris and Jimi have done an excellent job with there reviews and i will try not to repeat whats already been covered.I am currently using a LN 15 tpi thin plate dovetail saw thats been with me since last summer , I really like it and get really good results from it . Its done allot of work cutting at least a couple of hundred dovetails. So this is what i will compare no 10 with.

Very similar in size and style , with the same TPI . No 10 has very crisp sharp teeth with slightly shallower gullets, running my fingers over them they are like sharp pins . LN teeth were never this sharp .

The handles are much the same size and shape with No 10 being more refined and the fit and finish is just perfect.One small thing that i found a bit of a niggle , I like to rest my fore finger on the little recess just along side the brass back of the LN it fits in there perfectly.

With No 10 I wasnt able to get comfy with it there and had to rest it further down the handle near the fixing screws. [thats probably were it should be]

I found this a little strange and it took me a while to get used to it.The brass back is thicker and heavier on No 10 and i like the round end at the front .

So to the important bit , how good does it do at its job. Well it takes 10 less stokes than the LN to get to the base line , very sharp teeth and the weighty brass back help here. Although sawing some hard oak it did want to grab a little , I think the teeth need more use and a chance to dull slightly to be better in very hard stuff. It can be steered easily if you start off at slightly wrong angle,much the same as the LN.I made some practice cuts in Popular about 4mm apart which went fine and then sawed in-between them getting gradually closer to the last cut and ending up with less than 1/2mm apart.

TO BE CONTINUED

Cheers Bern

 

[Berncarpenter]

Practice over I decided to make a dove tail template from Birds eye maple and Black walnut
Marking out

No 10 cut through the Maple tails accurately and quickly no trouble at all

Same with the Walnut Pins

Straight off the saw and spot on

After clean up and cutting angles

I have fallen for this saw and had to send it of to Matthew today because while its with me I'm not going to get any work done I JUST CANT LEAVE IT ALONE. I didn't think i would find the performance any better than my LN but was so wrong . This saw works as good as it looks.

I have put the dovetail template in with the saw for you Shane as a little thank you for the pass round .

Cheers Bern

 

[jimi43]

Oh wow!

What a superb review Bern and a lovely touch to include the thank you present....darn it...I want it back now!

It really makes me warm inside that we have such a seriously great saw maker in England again!

Cheers mate!

Jimi

 

[Berncarpenter]

Thanks Jimi
I struggled with the write up one finger typing and very poor spelling it took me ages to do. I am better with wood than words.

Cheers Bern

 

[SkeltonSaws]

Good Morning All!

This is just a quick post from me (Jaq) as Shane isn't here today, but he just wanted me to acknowledge that he has read your reviews and he will get back to you later today. Shane read your review 'Bern' late last night when we returned from yet another concert-all the girls here sing! He is so pleased that it is getting such a positive reception. Like you Bern - Shane is no writer and I tend to type just about everything through his voice. However, this hasn't really held him back as his practical skills, no doubt like you have more than made up for his dyslexia. I'm not practical, but even I can see that your dovetails are first class. I may download that picture if that is ok? for my Twitter page. Everyone's photos on here have been really good, I took all the pictures for our website and did in fact write it all myself too, but now against some of these they look a bit poor! Are you in 'Saw Therapy' now 'Bern'?! 12 hours ...that made me laugh! Anyway ...Thanks all and Shane will get back to you tonight with any technical stuff and to answer any questions you may have.

Thanks

Jaq

 

[matthewwh]

Skelton Saw safely received at WH.

First impressions: GORGEOUS!

More detailed review and analysis to follow once I've had a play.

I'm inclined to pop an order in for one before Shane realises that he is giving them away far too cheaply at £245.

 

[jimi43]

Skelton Saw safely received at WH.

First impressions: GORGEOUS!

More detailed review and analysis to follow once I've had a play.

I'm inclined to pop an order in for one before Shane realises that he is giving them away far too cheaply at £245.

You know Matthew...I was JUST thinking the same thing! :mrgreen:

But I think I shall wait for "other types" to come into the range! :wink:

Jim

 

[Paul Chapman]

I'm inclined to pop an order in for one before Shane realises that he is giving them away far too cheaply at £245.

I think it's always difficult for custom saw makers to know how much to charge, particularly when starting out. I have three saws that were made for me by Mike Wenzloff. They are superb and I reckon they were too cheap - he always has a backlog. Maybe once you are established, adjust the price to control the demand to a level you can cope with :-k I would have happily paid more for my Wenzloffs.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Harbo]

I have two Wenzloffs and two Gramercys so cannot really justify buying another one - the saw does look stunning though!

Rod

 

[SkeltonSaws]

Good Evening Bern and all!

So glad that you liked the weight and the balance and the general feel of the saw. One slight thing that I noticed you mentioned that the LN saw was 15 TPI, this can be a little confusing it's actually 15 PPI so in effect it's 14 TPI - Ours is 15 TPI/ 16 PPI (So has one extra tooth per inch than a LN) Therefore it should give a finer finish. Although the teeth are finer on our saw which would normally result in a slower cut, the rake angle combined with the hang angle of the handle and tapered blade speeds up the cut. Bern, you truly know how to cut beautiful dovetails -this is the first thing that I always look at on a handmade piece of furniture. I'm looking forward to receiving your template. Thanks for your great comments.

Kind regards

Shane

PS Mrs Penny can breath a sigh of relief!

 

[Berncarpenter]

Good Morning All!

This is just a quick post from me (Jaq) as Shane isn't here today, but he just wanted me to acknowledge that he has read your reviews and he will get back to you later today. Shane read your review 'Bern' late last night when we returned from yet another concert-all the girls here sing! He is so pleased that it is getting such a positive reception. Like you Bern - Shane is no writer and I tend to type just about everything through his voice. However, this hasn't really held him back as his practical skills, no doubt like you have more than made up for his dyslexia. I'm not practical, but even I can see that your dovetails are first class. I may download that picture if that is ok? for my Twitter page. Everyone's photos on here have been really good, I took all the pictures for our website and did in fact write it all myself too, but now against some of these they look a bit poor! Are you in 'Saw Therapy' now 'Bern'?! 12 hours ...that made me laugh! Anyway ...Thanks all and Shane will get back to you tonight with any technical stuff and to answer any questions you may have.

Thanks

Jaq

Hi Jaq
Thanks for replying so quickly and apologies for being so slow with mine , but I've had a tuff day Happy for you to use any of the photos and heres a few more for you to view.

Its funny how the clock whizzes round in my workshop , 12 hours flew by so no therapy needed .You got some very talented craftsmen and writers yet to come and I'm sure there will be a video 8)

Cheers Bern

 

[Berncarpenter]

Good Evening Bern and all!

So glad that you liked the weight and the balance and the general feel of the saw. One slight thing that I noticed you mentioned that the LN saw was 15 TPI, this can be a little confusing it's actually 15 PPI so in effect it's 14 TPI - Ours is 15 TPI/ 16 PPI (So has one extra tooth per inch than a LN) Therefore it should give a finer finish. Although the teeth are finer on our saw which would normally result in a slower cut, the rake angle combined with the hang angle of the handle and tapered blade speeds up the cut. Bern, you truly know how to cut beautiful dovetails -this is the first thing that I always look at on a handmade piece of furniture. I'm looking forward to receiving your template. Thanks for your great comments.

Kind regards

Shane

PS Mrs Penny can breath a sigh of relief!

Hi Shane
Sorry for the TPI mistake #-o Also i forgot to mention the difference in the hang of the handle ,it can be seen clearly in these shots.

I was really impressed with your saw and i will be ordering one from you in the near future .

Cheers Bern

 

[jimi43]

Superb photographs Bern!! 8)

And equally stunning dovetails!!

I just knew there would be someone following who would show us all how it can be done and the beauty of doing it with a great tool is that you feel good doing it!

You can't design that feeling into a production line

Jim

 

[G S Haydon]

Part - 1

Inn life there’s a first time for everything and in this case it’s my first time with a woodworking tool custom-made by a small family business and I've been eager to find out what he’s come up with. Just for the record Shane has be lending his saws out to anyone who wants a go, for free. A few UK tool sellers are offering this and I hope it continues. I feel it means a greater breadth of experience is applied to any “review” and helps cut through the “wow look at the new shiny thing” that we can all suffer from. Also, I’ll just make one further thing clear: You don’t need this saw to cut great joinery. Comfortable and sharp, the two key ingredients for great work, can be found in humble tools. I should know; my normal DT saws of choice are a Zona and less-than-pretty Spear & Jackson – but that is not the point of tools like this. The reason that someone wants to purchase the work of someone like Shane is for the attention to detail and the appreciation of craftsperson. So then let us focus on that, as it is those factors I feel that will set it apart.

The design inspiration for the saw is from the 18th century, a wise place to start. The finish and presentation are of the highest order, and the saw is very nicely packed with a useful guide for those who need one. The medallion is attractive and features a peacock with a beak full of oak leaf and acorns; sounds odd, looks cool. I think I need a coat of arms, perhaps a cream tea, or a pint of cider, anyway…..The split nuts are dressed and fit perfectly with the rosewood grip. I’ve become aware that my assumed “medium-sized” hands are more like medium/small. No matter; the saw is comfortable and would take a larger hand than mine. It invites a proper position of all the digits. The grip is completely handmade from Rosewood and is a tribute to the care that has gone into making it.

Although very comfortable, the only area I felt could have been improved was the transition from the sides to the of the grip into the curved areas. The transition is just a little to obvious. If it was one of my daily users I would rub it with a rasp – but that’s not something I would want to attempt on a custom-made saw, More likely, I’d discuss it with the maker so they could maintain the flawless look. The image below might just help illustrate what I mean. I know I’m being critical, but comfort is such a key factor for me. See if you can spot it when contrasted with my Dad’s tenon saw.

The sawplate is high quality Swedish steel and is brilliantly sharp. The back is solid brass rather than folded, and stamped with the Skelton name. On lovely aspect of the handle is how it flows into the brass back, which terminates into the handle with intended and perfect union.

I’ll hold off from too much of the how it in use until next time, but there will be no surprises. Due to its substantial back and super-sharp teeth, you saw by the book: light to virtually no pressure and simply steer it.

After my short time with the saw I did further appreciate that for those who do buy tools of this nature, there is in addition to proper function a degree of art and appreciation that is very enjoyable. As I alluded to at the start, it will not cut your joinery any better or make you a master woodworker – but it won’t make your joinery worse and potentially you’ll be enjoying the journey all the more. Next time, the important stuff: making something with it.

PS, Part 2 will indeed cover more of the factors involved in how the saw works such as the weight, balance and how it is sharpened. I will be very reluctantly sending this one back to you shane!

 

[bugbear]

Although very comfortable, the only area I felt could have been improved was the transition from the sides to the of the grip into the curved areas. The transition is just a little to obvious. If it was one of my daily users I would rub it with a rasp – but that’s not something I would want to attempt on a custom-made saw, More likely, I’d discuss it with the maker so they could maintain the flawless look. The image below might just help illustrate what I mean. I know I’m being critical, but comfort is such a key factor for me. See if you can spot it when contrasted with my Dad’s tenon saw.

I've seen this before on high end saws. When you look at shop made replacement
handles for saws by new workrer (always an enjoyable project) it's often noticeable that the handles
are a little square, with just the corners knocked off;

post911633.html?hilit=%20remove%20the%20corners%20#p911633

Conversely, expert makers tend to make a perfect curves, but also leave a distinct transition to the cheek, as Graham has noted.

I think they do this because it's (actually) hard. Working the curve of the handle whilst creating a perfect line to the arris takes considerable skill. It's much easier to make the corner round (as Graham notes, removing this arris would be very simple).

I think in this instance the desire to do good/difficult work is overriding the pursuit of ergonomics, but that a more comfortable
handle might not (perversely) look as "polished".

BugBear

 

[G S Haydon]

Seems reasonable BB. I know Shane has done a better job than I would likely do. My S&J with a rasp chucked at them would win no beauty contests!