SIP scroll saw and other starters?

[chrispuzzle]

I'm very new to woodworking, done very little apart from making up model railway baseboards and tables, that sort of thing. But I've been tempted to try my hand at jigsaw puzzle cutting for a while now and finally an unexpected - but modest - cheque has pushed me over the edge...

Reading the posts here and looking at my small budget two "starter" scroll saws seem to be catching attention, the "Perform" and the SIP - 01373.

I was wondering if any of the folk who bought the SIP recently, according to the threads, can report on whether it is as good as it looked on demo? And does anybody have anything to add on the Axminster's cheapo Perform? Or any other "budget" saws for that matter? I know I ought to have a Hegner or a Dewalt but I can't justify that expenditure to my partner yet! And I think I should find out if I am any good at this first...

For jigsaw puzzle cutting I guess variable speed, lack of vibration especially at low speed, and a quick blade change, plus the ability to use 2/0 or finer blades without breaking them more than the plywood will anyway, are the main things I need.

Thanks in advance for your help...

Chris

 

[MikeW]

Welcome to the forum, Chris!

I suspect Gill will be along and can help you with the scroll saw info--which I cannot. Just wanted to say welcome...

Take care, Mike

 

[Gill]

Hi Chris

Welcome to the wonderful world of the scrollsaw . Have you seen some of the jigsaw's that Carter Johnson has cut freehand? If you run a search for him on this forum, you'll find some inspirational work.

Choosing a saw is difficult. As you say, a good saw will have minimum vibration, a variable speed control, low noise, good dust extraction and quick blade changing. Generally speaking, the more you pay for a saw the more likely you are to find these qualities. Also, look for a saw that uses flat headed blades, not those with pins. Flat headed blades are much more versatile when it comes to making internal cuts. Although you probably don't intend to make such cuts at present, you don't know what sort of projects might appeal to you once you become more familiar with your saw.

I've seen the SIP demonstrated at a show and it looked rather good to me although I've never used one. I suspect there is someone on the forum who owns one and who might be able to enlighten you from their personal experience.

The Perform saw looks like one of those cheap Chiwanese saws that entered the market a couple of years ago. I've seen posts from new scrollers who've bought machines like this and enthused about their virtues. They usually never post again!

I'm fascinated by the Axminster AWFS 18 saw. Again I've never used one but I've seen the exploded parts diagram and it looks like a very close clone of the Hegner 2. I'd love to get my hands on one of these. I don't think the blade changing will be very quick with this machine because it relies on allen keys, but if you were to spend another £25 or so on some additional components from Hegner, you should be able to overcome this shortcoming. In theory, anyway!

Don't waste your time looking for a DeWalt saw in the UK. They're very difficult to source and mostly seem to be available on the 'grey' market. DeWalt used to have a very good name but they've recently moved manufacture out of the US to the Far East and quality has suffered. Lots of scrollers in the US have reported problems with the tables not being flat.

A saw that's been around for a while and has a proven track record is the Delta 40-570. I know another woodworker on this forum is on the cusp of acquiring one of these so he might be able to give you the benefit of his experience soon. Incidentally, there's a Delta saw on eBay right now - if you happen to be able to collect it from Cornwall. You'd have to ask the vendor what model it is and if it has variable speed. I certainly wouldn't worry about the table being rusty - if push comes to shove, you can mount plywood over the top of it!

In fact, it's worth keeping your eyes open on eBay. Sometimes there are bargains to be had. Diamond saws are often auctioned and if you can get them to Hinkley, the manufacturer will service them for you no matter how old they are. I see there's an old Diamond in Middlesex listed right now. I'm unable to change blades on my Diamonds as quickly as the manufacturer claims you should be able to, but they're still great saws and ideally suited to jigsaws which don't require lots of internal cuts.

If I was just starting out scrolling, I think I'd probably opt for the Delta 40-570 saw. However, I'd also keep my eyes on eBay for second hand Diamonds.

Don't forget to get some good blades too! Those that are supplied with the saw are unlikely to be very good quality. I import most of my blades from Flying Dutchman in America and the proprietor will send you a free sample pack. However, a good alternative source of quality blades from the UK is Hegner.

I'm sorry that I don't have too much personal experience of machines at the introductory end of the market, but I hope I've been able to help you. If you've got any further questions, just shout out and if I can't answer them the chances are that someone else will be able to.

Gill

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, Chris. I'd suggest not looking at Carter's jigsaws lest you give up the idea on the spot and take up embroidery instead. :shock: :wink: Anyway, fwiw I've got an older Delta variable speed and it seems to be okay - any limitations are strictly those of the klutz using the thing, not the saw...

Cheers, Alf

 

[Ham]

Hi Chris,
I bought the cheapest Perform model this time last year in the naive belief that as I wasn't intending to do much work with it I wouldn't need to worry about spending a reasonable amount of money. How wrong I was! The saw is poorly made and has a tremendous amount of vibration and noise. I'm going to sell it and do what I should have done in the first place - buy a better quality low vibration, low noise model.
Cheers, David

 

[chrispuzzle]

Thanks for all the friendly replies and welcomes so far!

Gill, especially - thanks for taking all that trouble at, what, nearly three in the morning?!

I'm certainly intrigued by the Diamond - the one on eBay at present is in my area too - but I don't drive, so getting it to Hinkley would be an issue if a second-hand one needed servicing.

The Delta is one I looked at and thought - too expensive right now. I will have to renegotiate terms with my partner to buy that. DIYtools seems to have a good price at www.diytools.co.uk/Product.aspx/!TB_DEL40570 (£159.95) and then confuses the issue with: www.diytools.co.uk/Product.aspx/!Del40570 (£199.95) - are we talking about an old line running out and a new version coming in? Or what?

I'm grateful for having that cheap "Perform" taken out of the equation by Gill and Ham, but still hoping to hear something about the SIP from a user. I could afford a SIP now without further negotiations. A thumbs up or down from a user would make all the difference.

I did take a peek at Carter's puzzles. Wow. Beautiful! How many years of practise does it take....? NO! Don't tell me! Conrad Armstrong's site has some magnificent puzzles on it - see http://www.newpuzzles.com/nether.htm for an amazing puzzle. He also has a good "how to" page.

Chris

 

[Gill]

Hi Chris

Looking at the Deltas, I'd opt for the cast iron model every time (subject to budget). The greater the mass of a scrollsaw, the less it will vibrate.

I wasn't aware you could get the Ryobi in this country - that's worth considering too. One of the moderators on a 'Murrican scrollsaw forum uses one and he's quite happy with it. I could put you in touch with him if you like.

Oh, and don't worry about the times I post on this forum - my sleep pattern is atrocious!

Gill

 

[chrispuzzle]

Gill -

Thanks! The thing about the Deltas at DIYTools is that the model actually stated to be cast iron is the cheaper of the two, although of course both 40570s could be cast iron. One would expect the same model number to share the same construction?

Chris

 

[Gill]

Hi Chris

Yup, that's what one would expect. However, as you pointed out earlier, it may be that Delta is phasing out an earlier model and the later model could be made of different materials.

If I was advertising a saw and it had cast iron in its construction, I'd make darned sure that was mentioned. The fact that it isn't advertised on one of the models suggest to me that the saw is made of something else. Delta has a good reputation amongst scrollers and it's unlikely that any of their products will disappoint. Nevertheless, I'd always go for mass.

Of course, if you decide to buy a more lightweight saw you could always add mass by securing it to a concrete/marble base or a home made sand box.

Gill

 

[Gill]

An update on the Ryobi...

Apparently, the blade clamps on the 16" version aren't as good as those on the 18" variable speed version (I don't know if the 18" version is available in the UK). It has a good teflon table and the up-front controls are points in its favour. So is the blower with built in light.

Whilst it runs fairly smoothly through most of the ranges, there is more vibration over the 1000 strokes per minute mark. A sand box would be a useful addition.

Although the Ryobi is a good saw in the price range, my contact prefers the Delta for ease of blade change.

Gill

 

[chrispuzzle]

Gill -

Thanks for all this extra information! The Ryobi looks like a good fallback if I can't squeeze the extra money for a Delta or to put in a bid on that Diamond on eBay. I have emailed the guy asking if it is indeed in good order - the description says it was recently fully serviced but doesn't spell out the magic words "good working order" as such.

That Diamond is sooo pretty in a simple boxy "serious kit" kind of way. I want it I want it I want it...

Meanwhile I have been reading Evan Kern's book on "Making Wooden Jigsaw Puzzles". When/if I finally get a saw and my blades and stuff I'll see if I can't post the exercises as I go through them.

Still hoping some of the people who said they'd bought a SIP a few months back will be able to report on the experience...

Chris

 

[Taffy Turner]

A saw that's been around for a while and has a proven track record is the Delta 40-570. I know another woodworker on this forum is on the cusp of acquiring one of these so he might be able to give you the benefit of his experience soon.

Gill

Chris,

I think it is me that Gill is referring to above. Gill was kind enough to give me a lot of advice regarding the choice of scroll saw. I oscillated back and forth between the Delta and the Axminster Hegner copy. Just at about the point that I was about to make a decision I had a car accident which wrote my car off. Fortunately it wasn't my fault, and nobody was seriously hurt, but it has meant that I had to go and buy a replacement car, and I am still waiting for the insurance to pay out on mine. The net result is that I am flat broke!

The above has given me more thinking time, and although I had decided to go for the Delta, I am now more inclined towards the Axminster with the additional bits from Hegner to simplify blade changing as suggested by Gill. The reasons for my about face were: -

1) I did a comparison of both saws capacities etc, and the Axminster comes out very slightly ahead.
2) The Axminster saw is rated for Trade use, whereas Delta machinery is only rated for Hobby use. From this I drew the conclusion that the Axminster saw is a serious bit of kit, and probably worth the extra money.

To summarise, once I am solvent again, I will be getting myself the Axminster Hegner copy together with a few bits and pieces from Hegner to "tune it up a little".

I hope that this incoherent ramble has helped you rather than confused you further.

Regards

Gary