SIP pillar drill and P/T questions

[pooka]

Hi all,
I am looking to buy a floor standing pillar drill, and the only ones I have found available locally are from Jet, SIP, Record, and Draper. I have tried to source a secondhand pillar drill locally, but every supplier I have spoken to does 3-phase ones only - according to them, people who buy single phase drills (and bandsaws) tend to hold onto them until they burn out, so it is rare to find single phase secondhand drills and bandsaws. Pity. Hence my looking at new machines.

I was leaning towards the Jet JDP-17, but it is the most expensive at almost 500euro. One supplier recommended SIP (probably the 01374), and although I don't have a price yet, I believe it is around 300euro. On the face of it seems like good value by comparison to the Jet (for my needs anyway), but I am not familar with SIP machines at all. I have read some good things about a few SIP products here, but is anyone familiar with their pillar drills and, if so, would you recommend them?

Also, the same supplier says that the SIP P/T is basically the same machine as the Scheppach HMS 260ci, but with different packaging (and half the price). I have to say I am very sceptical about this, but does anyone know whether he is close to the mark or completely misinformed?

Thanks.

 

[Alf]

Pooka,

Assuming it's just for woodworking and you're not going to go in for a little precision engineering on the side, I reckon pretty nearly any drill press will do the job. Others will probably disagree mind you. :wink: One thing I've found worth having is a keyless chuck, fwiw.

Cheers, Alf

 

[pooka]

Thanks Alf. Yup, it is just for woodworking. As far as I know, the SIP comes with a keyed chuck. I have also read (probably on this forum) that it is worth replacing a standard chuck with one of better quality anyway, so getting a decent keyless chuck sounds like the thing to do.

Does anyone have any idea of how much a good keyless chuck might cost?

 

[Anonymous]

Others will probably disagree mind you. :wink: Cheers, Alf

No. I agree completely with you Alf. Mine came from machinemart and has been great

 

[StevieB]

With regards to chucks - check before you buy that you can actually get a keyless chuck to fit the pillar drill you are interested in. I bought the larger of the two perform benchtop drills which has a keyed chuck with the same aim in mind. Turns out a keyless chuck is not easily available, and the only one I could find would have cost more than I paid for the drill! Having said that the keyed chuck is fine, and although its a cheap drill its fine for the hobby level woodwork I do. Just dont lose the chuck key.....

Steve.

 

[OLD]

I have a cheap pillar drill and it does the job if the speed is not set to high but it has a poor depth stop so bad that its useless also its worth checking for play in the quill shaft area so you may want to inspect before you buy.

 

[Woodythepecker]

Pooka, i agree with the others.

As for the SIP p/t, i think your supplier meant to say that it is the same as the Elektra Beckum 260 p/t. The EB has a number of clones, the SIP and Axminster Preform being just 2. As far as i know, the only real differences between these machines is the colour and the price.
If this is the case then the SIP is well worth buying, because the few hundred quid you save can go towards the drill.

I may be wrong but dosn't Tony have the SIP?

Good Luck

Woody

 

[MilkyBarKid]

All the SIP drill's I've looked at have been junk with terrible runout - you don't even need to put anything in the chuck to feel it. I'd guess that the draper drills are the same low budget taiwanese. The record drills I've seen are not in the same league - far superior (unless they've changed things). Howerver they are much more expensive than the draper / SIP alternatives.
Don't know anything about Jet.
MBK

 

[Scott]

I'd guess that the draper drills are the same low budget taiwanese. The record drills I've seen are not in the same league - far superior (unless they've changed things).

I think Record did change them last year or the year before. I have a 5/8" Record pillar drill and it's built like a Panzer tank - big lumps of cast iron! I bought it 2 or 3 years ago and I can't remember what I paid but it was on the market about £400 and shortly after a similar spec machine that looked liked a re-badged Chaiwanese jobby appeared. I think mine is a D58P and the newer one is a DP58 or something equally confusing! Best to look at them in the flesh before you buy I reckon. I don't know if they still make the big heavy old ones.

I also have a Record PT260 planer/thicknesser that is another clone from the same place as the SIP. I get by with it but I'm not overly impressed with it. I wish I'd spent more on a better machine but I finish everything with hand planes so since it's only doing the donkey work it's not the end of the world.... I suppose.... :?

I

 

[pooka]

The play in the SIP drill is one of the things that concerns me. I haven't seen the SIP drills in the flesh yet, so my only source of info on them has been from the supplier (unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any reviews/opinions of SIP drills elsewhere). He is good to deal with, and seems very honest and upfront about the limitations of some of what he sells, so I have been depending on what he has said to date. He sells the Jet, SIP, and Draper drills (the Record drills are available from a different supplier, and one which can be a real pain to deal with :roll: but this guy seems to have a dim view of modern Record machinery). His angle on it is that the Jet is the most accurate of those three drills, with the SIP and Draper being comparable to each other. He believes that the SIP (and Draper) are "accurate enough" for woodworking and that I might only notice a problem if using large drill bits of 25mm diameter or larger. Basically, his suggestion is that I go with the cheaper option as he believes it is much better value for money. In fairness to him, he has said that I can buy a SIP drill and bring it back a few weeks later if I am not happy with it - that is a generous offer (particularly when compared to some of his local competitors who'd sooner sever one of their own arms than make such an offer!), but I wanted to avoid the hassle of another 2 hour round trip to return the drill if other people's experiences suggested that I'd most likely be buying a dud. Based on the responses posted here, I think I'll see if I can get to see SIP pillar drills in a more local supplier to get a better idea of what they are like before deciding either way.

As for the P/T, the suggestion that he may be mistaking the Scheppach P/T for the Elektra Beckum makes sense and might well explain that. I had a quick glance at the SIP P/T on the day I was out at his place, but (without turning it on) the build quality didn't seem to be on a par with the Scheppach - of course, at a little less than half the price of the Scheppach that's not much of a surprise. If he had been correct about the guts of both machines being the same, then the SIP would seem like an incredible bargain. While it sounds like the SIP is almost certainly a bargain when compared to the EB P/T, I think the Scheppach is the one that I will still be leaning towards when the time comes for me to buy one.

Thanks to everyone for the responses so far.

 

[Woodythepecker]

Pooka, i didn't realise that you were thinking about buying the Scheppach and my comment about the SIP being a good buy was only to say that if it is a EB clone then compared to the price of the EB it is certainly the one to go for. But now that the Scheppach has come into the frame this is a different matter, and although i have not used a Scheppach myself i believe from what i have read that it is a excellent machine.

Good luck with what ever one you go for.

Regards

Woody

 

[pooka]

Thanks Woody. My question on the SIP P/T was more of an aside really, as a pillar drill is what I am buying next (plus a bandsaw plus an air filter - buying woodworking machinery is almost addictive ). I will be looking at a P/T further down the line (planning to try out my hand tools skills first ...just for a laugh probably!), but it cropped up in conversation with the supplier and he then pointed me at the SIP. From having seen the Scheppach in the flesh, and read the views of people here that have used them, I was inclined to think that it was a very different machine to the SIP alright, but it is very useful to see feedback here which supports that view.

When it comes to SIP in general, I have seen Tony say good things about the P/T on this forum, but I don't recall having seen any other SIP machines get a good mention here (mind you, I don't recall many bad things being said about them either). Basically, I guess I am trying to get a feel for whether or not they are an outright bad choice for something like a pillar drill, 'cos if so I might be better off biting the bullet and paying the extra for something that seems to have a reasonable reputation, like the Jet. Hopefully, spending some time swinging from some SIP kit in a more local store will give me a better idea, but unfortunately they won't even plug it in for me so there'll be a limit to what I can determine about its quality.

 

[OLD]

Woodworker october 2004 rating value and preformance out of 5
Axminster nd 16b 4. 5. editors choice,
Rexon dp-330a 3. 3.
Clarke cdp 301b 4. 4. best value,
Draper gd16/16c 3. 4.
Record dp58p 3. 4. best on test,
Sip 07296 quickadjust 4. 3.
hope this helps.

edited 8/7/05

 

[pooka]

Woodworker october 2004 rating value and preformance out of 5
Axminster nd 16b 4.5.editors choice, Rexon dp-330a 3.3. Clarke cdp 301b 4.4.best value, Draper gd16/16c 3.4. Record dp58p 3.4. best on test, Sip 07296 quickadjust 4.3. hope this helps.

Thanks for that OLD, that is very useful. I'm not sure that I am following the formatting correctly though - am I correct in reading it that the Rexon was Editors Choice, the Draper was Best Value, and the SIP was Best on Test?

 

[StevieB]

Dont think so - look at the position of the commas. This makes it Axminster as editors choice, Clarke best value and so on.

Steve.

 

[CYC]

Pooka, I got a SIP drill press from McQuillans over a year ago at €150 or so. I haven't done anything really intensive but like everyone else said it's far enough for woodworking.

Here is a picture of it. After making a table it becomes a great tool.
It may look small on the picture but it's tall enough.

 

[pooka]

Thanks for adjusting that OLD. What threw me a bit was that, taking account of the commas, it read that the Record had received "Best of test" even though it scored the second lowest rating, so I presumed I was reading it incorrectly. Presumably the rating figure gave a lot of weighting to the cost of the drill (i.e. value) in order for that drill to have have been given such a label in spite of its relatively low rating.

The fact that the Sip was rated so highly sounds promising, although I wonder how much that rating was based on its infinitely variable speed, and digital display, that the Sip marketing speaks so highly of. Unfortunately, it is a bench-top model, rather than a floor stander, so that rules it out for me.

CYC, thanks for that. Have you experienced any runout problems with your Sip?

 

[CYC]

So far all is good, no problems.
I would even say it's a good piece of kit for the price, lots of depth available on the adjustable table.

 

[jonny boy]

Hi Pooka, whenever i have been looking for a new machine/tool, past experience has taught me that every time i try to save money by purchasing cheaper equipment i always regret it several weeks down the line. if you are serious about your efforts towards woodworking then i'm afraid the only advice i can give is buy the best that you can afford. it might take you longer to aquire all the machinery but it will save you money in the long term and give you the tools that will last you many years enjoyable use, not to mention accuracy.

cheers,jonny.

 

[Mike B]

Hi

Whilst on this thread, has anyone got/tried/seen either of the two Scheppach drills?? Look quite interesting with the variable depth throat...

Cheers
Mike