SIP 12" Table Saw (with Dado Cutter)

[DaveL]

I think my Wadkin (1961 single phase) must have had a brake fitted. It takes about 10 secs to slow down and there is a click from the motor as it spins up, and a click as it slows down ?

I doubt that it has a brake, if it does it will be one that was fitted after the machine was sold.

I think the click you can hear will be the starter flicking over as the revs rise and dropping back when it runs down. My Wadkin, a bit newer than yours was 3 phase, no brake. I fitted a single phase motor, still with no brake. With a standard 10" blade fitted it takes just over the 10 seconds to stop, I have not timed it when the dado head is fitted, but it will be longer.
I have fitted a stop button on a lead, that lives on the floor so I can stop the saw with my foot, I don't have to move my hands at the end of the cut, just wait for the blade to come to a standstill.

 

[Digit]

Roy, have you ever used a radial arm saw for prolonged periods?

The answer is yes Scrit, and I imagine that you missed my earlier post about the local chap's injury.
As regards your story about the chap and the dado cutter that is as uncommon as the one I mentioned about the local chap, and not even the HSE can make fools like the one I mentioned sensible.
Under the circumstances you describe he would likely have been even worse off it had been a large diameter router cutter.
apparently some people even manage to injure themselves each year with watering cans???

Roy.

 

[Scrit]

oh - btw - its got a full fence and was built in 1961 !

Yes, but it was Wadkin's "bargain basement" model (the top of the line machines were the PK and later the PP). As early as the late 1920s and before UK manufacturers recognised the need for the short position rip fence on rip saws. Trained wood machinists were being taught by the 1960s (in college and by Wadkin sales reps) of the need to add an auxilliary short rip fence to the AGS (and some other models). In the 1970s Wadkin changed the design to this for the AGS, BGS, BGP and BRT:

so quoting the example of a nearly 50-year old machine which uses a fence design genarally superceded in the 1970s throughout Europe is maybe not a strong case. All of Wadkin's panel saws shared a similar design to the BRT, as can be seen of this more modern SP130 from around 2000:

I think my Wadkin (1961 single phase) must have had a brake fitted. It takes about 10 secs to slow down and there is a click from the motor as it spins up, and a click as it slows down ?

If the machine has had a DC injection brake fitted you'll hear a darned sight more than a single click! What you'll hear is a series of pulsing clicks both during deceleration and often for several seconds after motion has ceased but before the timer circuit has finished its job. Until the change in the German regs in the early 1990s relatively few woodworking machines were fitted with automatic braking (although a good many industrial machines had manual brakes from the 1930s onwards)

Scrit

 

[Tusses]

I wasn't meaning the full fence was a good thing - just that someone said the old ones had short fences.

The manual does say to set the fence running out 1/32" front to back - I guess this will stop some kickback. I will be using a short aux fence with mine.

as for the braking - what does a mechanical brake sound like ?

 

[Scrit]

Under the circumstances you describe he would likely have been even worse off it had been a large diameter router cutter.

Doubtful. Router cutters sold in the EU are all of chip limitation design. I can attest from personal experience that you are more likely to have your hand ejected from the cutter than drawn in

Scrit

 

[Digit]

Doesn't prevent the cutter running along the digit, which unfortunately can mean a worse result for the victim that the simple loss of the end of one finger.
Let's face it, if we aren't careful all the tools we use can bite, and you can only reduce the risks, not eliminate them.
I haven't, touch wood, had an accident with a woodworking machine in over 50 yrs, doesn't mean I can't.
But equally, as Philly says, if I were to worry about all the possible risks I'd stick to stamp collecting.

Roy.

 

[Scrit]

I wasn't meaning the full fence was a good thing - just that someone said the old ones had short fences.

The higher end Wadkin PK and PP from the same period (in fact the PP was made from 1928 or so until the early 1960s) actially had a short/sliding rip fence. This is the PK (note the SUVA-like crown guard useable over dado heads):

The manual does say to set the fence running out 1/32" front to back - I guess this will stop some kickback.

I doubt it. The reason for having freeboard (or "toe out") is to reduce the tendency of materials, such as sheet materials, to bind in cut. If you saw reactive timber with a through fence you stand a greater chance of getting a kickback than if you utilise a short-position rip fence.

as for the braking - what does a mechanical brake sound like ?

They don't sound any different to an ordinary motor in my experience, although for automatic mechanical brakes the motors require more cables and the control box is a lot larger. Machines like spindle moulders and tenoners have had mechanical brakes for a long time which are akin to a motorcycle hub brake (and a similar size) - but they almost all had either a hand lever or foot pedal control. Some dimension saws had mechanical brakes, too, but Wadkin never offered it as an option on the AGS (or derivatives) as far as I can tell. Braked motors are an uncommon retrofituntil recent years when the cheaper option of a DC injection (electronic) brake has become pretty much the norm. Such braking often requires a large control box such as this (seen on a late model AGS):

Scrit

 

[Scrit]

Doesn't prevent the cutter running along the digit, which unfortunately can mean a worse result for the victim that the simple loss of the end of one finger.

With a router cutter you tend to get multiple lacerations and sometimes the end of the finger will be removed, however the finger will normally be thrown out of the cutter as a result of the cutter design. With a stacked saw dado head the hand tends to be drawn inwards by the chippers and much greater removal of tissue and bone occurs

Scrit

 

[Digit]

I agree with that Scrit, my point was that a badly lacerated finger becomes more of an impediment, in some circumstances, than a missing one.
I speak from experience on that one.
In my case doctors also went to a great deal of trouble to prevent me losing the complete vision in one eye, and it would be churlish to condemn them for that, but the heavy distortion that it left me with is more damn trouble to me than if they hadn't bothered.
Every case is different my friend, as I'm sure you are aware.
I'm all in favour of guards and safety devices but a safety officer's job can be a pretty thankless one I'm afraid.

Roy.

 

[trelvis]

Have bought myself new sip 10" table saw due to price from ebay and have added a New Osborne EB-3 what a difference

I am made up with it myself due to working with a micky mouse 100 pound one from tesco.

But you say there braked how do you know their braked so I can check mine and how long should the Arbor be to take a full stacked dado.