SIP 10" x 6" Planer Thicknesser set-up - help pl

[RogerM]

Last weekend I started using my SIP p/t, and after surface planing an edge on some oak for a table top I noticed that they were slightly banana shaped. Time to read the instructions! Those supplied were poor so downloaded the Perform P/T instructions from the Axminster site (recommended here - thank you).

Placing an alloy straight edge across the the infeed and out feed tables I noticed that the front edge of the infeed table was about 0.5mm below the edge of the out feed table when the straight edge was flat on the out feed table and just touching the back edge of the infeed table. I have adjusted the grub screws on the outfeed table so that they are completely withdrawn into the outfeed table casting, but still the tables aren't exactly parallel, and there is no more adjustment on the grub screws.

Anyone any idea how I can set up the tables so they are parallel? And yes - I have checked that my straight edge is straight by reversing it, and I get the same result both ways.

 

[tim]

Anyone any idea how I can set up the tables so they are parallel?

Roger

I'd send it back. Its meant to be a tool not a kit. If the adjustments provided don't do the biz then its faulty IMO

Cheers

Tim

 

[RogerS]

Roger

Have you tried loosening the grub screws first, then shifting the infeed until it is level and then re-tightening the grub screws...checking for level as you go.

As Tim said though....if it is new then it should go back...hassle though it is...but to save hassle you might want to give my suggestion a go :wink:

You haven't by any chance used the infeed or outfeed to move your planer/thicknesser, have you :wink: as that is the kiss of death for level DAMHIKT

 

[-David-]

Roger

I am having the same problem on my SIP 6" surface planer. I also have 4 grub screws to adjust, which require almost stripping the machine down to get at them and working underneath.
My initial exploration was to determine why, with an engineers square I was not getting a right angle from the fence on both tables at the same time. On testing the fence I have found that it has a slight twist in it which of course means that getting it square on both tables is impossible. It would be worth you checking your table castings - I did it by a couple of ways just to make sure.
By adjusting the tables to be level to each other I have at least got the error down to 0.3mm ( it was 0.9mm) which I will place on the infeed side.
Given that the machine 'only' cost £149 and it otherwise seems reasonably built I will suffer this and get the fence skimmed in time. I would not be convinced that a replacement would be any better.
You have made a greater investment though and will consider it differently, especially if it is an income generator.

Roger S made an important comment as I have been picking the machine up using the tables . And even though its only a small machine it still ways 42kg.

Good luck.

David

 

[Scott]

I have adjusted the grub screws on the outfeed table so that they are completely withdrawn into the outfeed table casting, but still the tables aren't exactly parallel, and there is no more adjustment on the grub screws.

Hi Roger

Not the first time I've heard of this. You could try shimming one end of the the plate that carries the grub screws. Some flattened baked bean tin will do. I,m assuming that the arrangement is the same as my Record and there is a separate plate with the grub screw holes screwed to the table casting so you'd be able to get a shim in between the two at one end of the plate to jack up the outfeed at the required end. If not I'll shut up!

Good luck!

 

[RogerM]

Roger

Have you tried loosening the grub screws first, then shifting the infeed until it is level and then re-tightening the grub screws...checking for level as you go.

As Tim said though....if it is new then it should go back...hassle though it is...but to save hassle you might want to give my suggestion a go :wink:

You haven't by any chance used the infeed or outfeed to move your planer/thicknesser, have you :wink: as that is the kiss of death for level DAMHIKT

Thanks Roger - I'll give that a try. But if the grub screws are the only approved adjustment then I think I need to speak to the supplier. It was an ex-demo machine which I was told (in writing) would be "as new", and at £325 it seemed like a reasonable deal. BTW, just noticed the time of your post - do you never sleep?

Scott - I had also thought about packing one end of the outfeed table with "shims", but this would be a real hassle as the setting would be lost everytime I removed the outfeed table to change to thicknessing mode. The grub screws are in the underside of the table so the packing would have to be at the other end of the table.

I haven't lifted the p/t with the infeed table, although I have used it to manoeuvre it around on its wheels. Not sure what else there is to grab hold of!

 

[RogerS]

But if the grub screws are the only approved adjustment

But what do they 'move' against? If they were pushing against a spring, for example, then I would agree with you but I don't think that they are. therefore, if you tighten a grub screw...you're tightening against something and I think...but prepared to be shot down in flames...that it's one of the other grub screws. So that suggests that some would need to be slackened to take up the movement from the other direction.

Anyways, that worked for me..and I couldn;t see anyway of getting shims into my planer! Hope you get it sorted,

6am? I was back from a run in Hyde Park by then

 

[-David-]

RogerM

I have now taken my SIP 6" planer adjustments as far as I can. I know we have not got the same machine but this might help.
It is now as accurate as it will ever be without skimming the tables and fence. Even along the short lengths there are highs and lows and a twist. But I do not know what the engineering tolerances should be in these cases, it sounds awful but should I be dissapointed by a difference of .03mm along the fence and lows of .01 on the beds?

To adjust my 4 grub screws I had first to slacken off adjacent machine screws I assume these pulled down the beds to lock them against the tops of the grub screws. Given enough slack in the system I then unscrewed the grub screws until I felt them loose the weight of the table. Then very gingerly between finger and thumb I twiddled my allen key until I felt the slightest pressure and in turn brought the bed up level. It is surprising how little finger tourque you need to raise the bed as I suppose there is much mechanical advantage in the screw thread. I know that with a bit of maths I could have worked out how much rotation would give such and such a lift but it is surprising that you only need to turn the screw by literally one degree and see the bed creep up.

After much checking I screwed up the locking screws in turn, slowly and in the manner of fitting a head gasket (or whatever you call that lump of metal at the top of an engine).
I must say that I did this several times, sometimes it was better, sometimes worse.
I phone SIP to see what methodology they use to do this in their service dept - might get some answers on Mon.

As I said not perfect but better than out of the shop.

Hope that might help a little.

David

 

[RogerS]

RogerM

but should I be dissapointed by a difference of .03mm along the fence and lows of .01 on the beds?

I can't even measure to that accuracy :? :wink:

 

[-David-]

I can't even measure to that accuracy

I must be better than I thought :wink:

Just yea old feeler gauge.
Had a bright idea in bed this morning as I was stuck for what I considered to be a flat surface to measure from - the marble top of the wash stand - dead flat!

Seriously though, as a Cabinet Maker what tolerances would you work to, as I am just starting out I do not want to be making a rod for my own back?
If I put some timber through the Sip Surface planer on all surfaces, should I expect not to see any sliver of light under the engineers square or should I chuck the engineers square and just use a carpenters one.

I come from a semi engineering background so might be too anal :shock: about accuracy.

David

 

[RogerS]

Seriously though, as a Cabinet Maker

I'm flattered but I can assure you that the title 'Cabinet Maker' is purely honorific and only reflects the volume of my posts and not my ability :lol: There are far more experienced people than me on the forum who can give you a much more qualified opinion.

For my twopennorth, I used to get fixated about extreme accuracy as well but then I came to realise that wood is flexible. It has internal stresses and strains that get released when you work it. So you might plane it flat but after a few days/hours it might well have a slight bow in it.

If you watch the puzzle maker video right at the end his one piece of advice is to plan for your errors, which makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[RogerM]

Placing an alloy straight edge across the the infeed and out feed tables I noticed that the front edge of the infeed table was about 0.5mm below the edge of the out feed table when the straight edge was flat on the out feed table and just touching the back edge of the infeed table. I have adjusted the grub screws on the outfeed table so that they are completely withdrawn into the outfeed table casting, but still the tables aren't exactly parallel, and there is no more adjustment on the grub screws.

OK, I've got an answer, although not sure whether it is *the* answer!

Started off by coming home early yesterday, at great inconvenience, to phone SIP tech dept so that I could speak to someone with the p/t in front of me. Guess what? They pack up early on Fridays and are all gone by 3pm. Nice work if you can get it.

Anyway, closer inspection of the out feed table shows that the flange which is used to hold it down is not a casting but bolted on. So I carefully placed a thin washer under the end opposite the grub screw to lift the edge nearest the blades. This raised it enormously and gave a huge error in the opposite direction. So out came the washer and I played around with various thicknesses of folded kitchen foil. Even this had a surprising effect, and eventually I found that 6 thicknesses each side were enough to raise the inside front edge sufficiently to make the tables parallel.

However, having raised the front edge of the outfeed table, workpieces were now snagging on the front edge as it was now raised above the cutting edge of the blades, so I loosened the keying pieces that are used to locate the outfeed on the p/t and slid them slightly forwards and back by trial and error until the front edge of the outfeed table was level with the blade. Again, tiny adjustments made huge differences. One minute snagging of the workpiece, and next free movement, but snipe you could trip over. Anyway, after about the 10th attempt I got the right setting and for the time being at least it seems to my untutored eye to be set up nicely - and I must say it seems to give very good results.

 

[-David-]

Well done Roger - hope your settings stay in place.

It is surprising what little tolerance there is to get it right, which makes you think of the procedures they adopt in setting them up in the factory, that is assuming they do try and set them up! But you do hear of people on this forum where the equipment is correctly aligned straight out of the box.

As far as my little SIP surfacer is concerned I used it yesterday and all seemed to be OK. Will probably do a review once I have used it some more and learnt how to post pics.

I am just starting a new thread as to which thicknesser to buy - I need one now to complete a project.

Hope you enjoy the SIP - the general quality of engineering seems to be OK, and in fact very good for the money.


David