Single Garage Workshop - Table Saw dilema...

[pike]

Some people have suggested that after trying the AW10 it isn't really a big enough jump up in quality from the TS200/250. I've got a TS250M2, a track saw and a bandsaw. In a 3m x 6m shed. Works well. Depends mostly on if you are prepared to let a tablesaw dominate or not. If you do it will work great but take up loads of space. I cut wider wood and sheets on the tracksaw and narrower pieces on the tablesaw. The bandsaw is actually really pretty good at ripping accurately too when set up right, but you then need to clean up the edge.

As with pcb1962, I would keep the tracksaw over the tablesaw if I had to, but I don't and won't The TS250 standard without extensions or slider works fine for me in a fairly small footprint. It's built down to a cost but it works.

 

[Grawschbags]

A fun dilemma, trying to fit all you want in! I too have a single car garage - 8 feet by 16 feet. I have a SIP 10 inch cast iron table saw on a wheeled base. I've replaced one of the wings with a router table insert. I have it set up so it faces the wall most of the time for cross-cutting and I swing it round by 90 degrees for long ripping, which I do less often. I break large sheets down outside with a circular saw and straight edge. You can fit a lot into a single garage if you plan the layout well...

Sounds like your setup is similar to what I'm looking for. I have been looking in to router table inserts to replace an extension wing also. I'll undoubtedly go with a wheeled base as well.

Similarly with the ripping sheets, anything I've had delivered to date has been cut up with a circular saw on the drive.

 

[Grawschbags]

In my workshop I do have a table saw, but it is my least used major power tool by far. What does get used a lot is my bandsaw and given the choice I would prioritise bandsaw over table saw any day. I also have a track saw and for breaking down sheet goods I don't even consider the table saw - mainly because of handling issues in my fairly narrow (but long) shop.

Thanks. It is my intention to get a bandsaw eventually. I'm not too concerned about fitting one in as it should be relatively manoeuvrable... famous last words...

 

[Grawschbags]

I don't move it very often at all, it's in the corner near the garage door, maybe a foot out from the wall and 2/3 foot from the garage door itself. Means that for most small rips I use it in situ. For wider rips I either roll it away from the wall, or just half open the garage door.

Sounds good to me... pretty much what I envisaged with where I would set mine up.

Don't mind having the garage door open, as long as it doesn't kickback anything in to the back of the cars...

 

[Phil1975]

I am using a single garage as a workshop too. When I say using I mean borrowing the Father in law's! Fortunately he was a carpenter his whole life, so he's very much on side!

With regards to a table saw I bought one like this one, which is currently on ebay: 302186962564
I live near Axminster & had a look at some of their saws, but I just felt that the older saws were better built & were something I seemed to gravitate towards. In my case it was also considerably cheaper!
Things I have personally learned since I bought the saw (but are not limited to this particular model) are:

1. Castors are ESSENTIAL! My Startrite weighs 100 Kg & is a single finger push! Get at least 2 locking castors or the saw will try to go for a walk when it's least convenient.

2. Dust extraction is easy to add & well worth the time & effort, both above & below the table. I started by only having extraction below, but quickly realised that a lot of dust is thrown upwards by the blade. I only have one extractor & just swap the hose to whatever machine I'm using at the time. On a slight tangent I built a Thein seperator & it's brilliant!

3. Mitre slots open up the world of jigs. I now wouldn't buy a saw without, but I didn't know that when I bought mine!

4. Get a decent blade. My original cheap blade deflected a LOT for such a small blade.

5. Make some zero clearance inserts, the accuracy of your cuts will improve drastically.

6. Induction motors are really nice to have. Mine is relatively low powered & does everything I want it to.

7. Never trust any tool, new or old, to be set up corretly. Take the time to tweak the fence, angle stops etc etc. Then clean & lubricate things & suddenly, in my case at least, the saw become much nicer to use & more accurate.

8. If you do go with something second hand then buy something mainstream like a Startrite, Multico, Wadkin etc & spares are not normally a problem. I picked up a second entire saw for peanuts because it looked really ratty but I now have a cupboard full of spares & my saw is now 100%.

9. I also have a track saw, which I find to be a perfect partner to the TS. I go between the two depending on what I'm doing & would never sell one in preference to the other. Different tools for different jobs, but with a slight overlap.

You mentioned getting a Domino. All I can say is do it! As a slight aside I have all my smaller tools hooked up to a small Festool extractor (also on a Thein seperator), so that the extractor switches on automatically with the tool. What's made this so much better is converting ALL my small tools to Neutric Powercon connectors, so that I can swap them over quickly.

Anyhow that's probably far too much information. Can you tell I'm bored!

 

[custard]

I do enjoy the process of buying and using nice new things. Even better if the end result is good...

Unfortunately there is some conflict between those two objectives. In a world full of cheap Far Eastern imports it's easy to pack a small workshop so full of kit that it restricts rather than expands your ability to make furniture.

If you're serious about making solid wood furniture you would dedicate a large percentage of your limited space and budget to activities that won't appeal to anyone's inner shop-a-holic. You'd want a decent sized bench plus a 4' x 2' "flat top", which is a laminate topped table for glue ups with open shelving beneath to hold timber components in stick. You'd want secure but convenient storage for your hand tools and layout tools. And most importantly of all you'd want enough room for timber storage. Because wood is the most important resource along with skill, you'd spend a large percentage of your budget on training and timber rather than tools and machinery.

Take those priorities out of a single garage space and a typical hobbyist budget, and what's left might only run to a band saw, a lunch box planer, an extractor, a basic collection of hand tools, and maybe a router.

That's all I had for many years, but month in month out I was producing hardwood furniture from my small workshop that I'm still pleased with today.

If you gain most of your pleasure from planning and equipping a workshop then that's entirely your prerogative. It's your time and your money so you can spend them how you like. But if you're more focussed on making stuff then the simple truth is, beyond a few basic items, tools and machinery won't occupy much of either your attention or your wallet.

Good luck!

 

[Grawschbags]

I am using a single garage as a workshop too. When I say using I mean borrowing the Father in law's! Fortunately he was a carpenter his whole life, so he's very much on side!

With regards to a table saw I bought one like this one, which is currently on ebay: 302186962564
I live near Axminster & had a look at some of their saws, but I just felt that the older saws were better built & were something I seemed to gravitate towards. In my case it was also considerably cheaper!
Things I have personally learned since I bought the saw (but are not limited to this particular model) are:

1. Castors are ESSENTIAL! My Startrite weighs 100 Kg & is a single finger push! Get at least 2 locking castors or the saw will try to go for a walk when it's least convenient.

2. Dust extraction is easy to add & well worth the time & effort, both above & below the table. I started by only having extraction below, but quickly realised that a lot of dust is thrown upwards by the blade. I only have one extractor & just swap the hose to whatever machine I'm using at the time. On a slight tangent I built a Thein seperator & it's brilliant!

3. Mitre slots open up the world of jigs. I now wouldn't buy a saw without, but I didn't know that when I bought mine!

4. Get a decent blade. My original cheap blade deflected a LOT for such a small blade.

5. Make some zero clearance inserts, the accuracy of your cuts will improve drastically.

6. Induction motors are really nice to have. Mine is relatively low powered & does everything I want it to.

7. Never trust any tool, new or old, to be set up corretly. Take the time to tweak the fence, angle stops etc etc. Then clean & lubricate things & suddenly, in my case at least, the saw become much nicer to use & more accurate.

8. If you do go with something second hand then buy something mainstream like a Startrite, Multico, Wadkin etc & spares are not normally a problem. I picked up a second entire saw for peanuts because it looked really ratty but I now have a cupboard full of spares & my saw is now 100%.

9. I also have a track saw, which I find to be a perfect partner to the TS. I go between the two depending on what I'm doing & would never sell one in preference to the other. Different tools for different jobs, but with a slight overlap.

You mentioned getting a Domino. All I can say is do it! As a slight aside I have all my smaller tools hooked up to a small Festool extractor (also on a Thein seperator), so that the extractor switches on automatically with the tool. What's made this so much better is converting ALL my small tools to Neutric Powercon connectors, so that I can swap them over quickly.

Anyhow that's probably far too much information. Can you tell I'm bored!

All good advice, thanks. Stuff will definitely be on casters where possible.

I hear what you are saying about the old machines, but I prefer buying new - warranty and all that...

Will need to have a look at these Neutric Powercon connectors you mention. Never heard of them before.

 

[Grawschbags]

I do enjoy the process of buying and using nice new things. Even better if the end result is good...

Unfortunately there is some conflict between those two objectives. In a world full of cheap Far Eastern imports it's easy to pack a small workshop so full of kit that it restricts rather than expands your ability to make furniture.

If you're serious about making solid wood furniture you would dedicate a large percentage of your limited space and budget to activities that won't appeal to anyone's inner shop-a-holic. You'd want a decent sized bench plus a 4' x 2' "flat top", which is a laminate topped table for glue ups with open shelving beneath to hold timber components in stick. You'd want secure but convenient storage for your hand tools and layout tools. And most importantly of all you'd want enough room for timber storage. Because wood is the most important resource along with skill, you'd spend a large percentage of your budget on training and timber rather than tools and machinery.

Take those priorities out of a single garage space and a typical hobbyist budget, and what's left might only run to a band saw, a lunch box planer, an extractor, a basic collection of hand tools, and maybe a router.

That's all I had for many years, but month in month out I was producing hardwood furniture from my small workshop that I'm still pleased with today.

If you gain most of your pleasure from planning and equipping a workshop then that's entirely your prerogative. It's your time and your money so you can spend them how you like. But if you're more focussed on making stuff then the simple truth is, beyond a few basic items, tools and machinery won't occupy much of either your attention or your wallet.

Good luck!

Thanks Custard.

When I started dabbling with woodwork, it was with the intention I would go the hand tools route. I bought a few used planes, chisels and other tools, and started learning via YouTube, Paul Sellers subscription, books etc. I found I wasn't getting anywhere quickly, dedicating the majority of my spare time to fettling tools, and swearing because my skills weren't improving quickly enough... I wasn't producing anything...

I've always enjoyed tinkering and making stuff, so the power tool/machinery route floats my boat that little bit more, with regards getting to the end result a bit quicker. Plus, like said, I enjoy buying stuff...

I'm an engineer to trade, and have no aspirations to jack that in and produce furniture. I'm a weekend warrior at best, so want to make best use of my available time. I do intend on using the stuff I purchase, and making use of the "workshop".

I agree, nothing I make will set the world alight given that I have no history/skills in any of these trades. But I suppose any projects I try to turn my hand to will only be limited by my imagination.

 

[MikeJhn]

Recommend these people and these castors: http://www.castors-online.co.uk/acatalo ... tml#SID=39 especially on tamped concrete or a slightly rough surface, on a smooth surface they can run away with your equipment if there is a slope, hence the brake's being essential, the brake's lock both the wheel and the turning ability so very stable once activated.

Mike

 

[SteveF]

I have a TS55 and best tool I ever got
I also had a cheap B&Q flip saw...it served me well but when I got the track saw I gave the flip to my son
6 months later and I was missing the table saw for ripping thin strips
6 months later I got a wadkin AGS 10, although it is not up and running yet..it is high on my list of todo
I don't reckon it will be used a lot but IMHO essential bit of kit for my hobby needs
I have a 14" bandsaw and wished I could rely on it to rip, but I never really got to grips with it and use it for cutting wonky firewood

Steve

 

[Grawschbags]

Recommend these people and these castors: http://www.castors-online.co.uk/acatalo ... tml#SID=39 especially on tamped concrete or a slightly rough surface, on a smooth surface they can run away with your equipment if there is a slope, hence the brake's being essential, the brake's lock both the wheel and the turning ability so very stable once activated.

Mike

They look the business, thanks. Always great to get a recommendation.

I'm guessing not every castor needs a brake - i.e, two diagonally opposing brakes would suffice?

Graeme

 

[transatlantic]

I'm guessing not every castor needs a brake - i.e, two diagonally opposing brakes would suffice?

Graeme

If your floor isn't flat, you may have a floating castor, so I'd just get all 4 with brakes.

 

[Bodgers]

I do enjoy the process of buying and using nice new things. Even better if the end result is good...

Unfortunately there is some conflict between those two objectives. In a world full of cheap Far Eastern imports it's easy to pack a small workshop so full of kit that it restricts rather than expands your ability to make furniture.

If you're serious about making solid wood furniture you would dedicate a large percentage of your limited space and budget to activities that won't appeal to anyone's inner shop-a-holic. You'd want a decent sized bench plus a 4' x 2' "flat top", which is a laminate topped table for glue ups with open shelving beneath to hold timber components in stick. You'd want secure but convenient storage for your hand tools and layout tools. And most importantly of all you'd want enough room for timber storage. Because wood is the most important resource along with skill, you'd spend a large percentage of your budget on training and timber rather than tools and machinery.

Take those priorities out of a single garage space and a typical hobbyist budget, and what's left might only run to a band saw, a lunch box planer, an extractor, a basic collection of hand tools, and maybe a router.

That's all I had for many years, but month in month out I was producing hardwood furniture from my small workshop that I'm still pleased with today.

If you gain most of your pleasure from planning and equipping a workshop then that's entirely your prerogative. It's your time and your money so you can spend them how you like. But if you're more focussed on making stuff then the simple truth is, beyond a few basic items, tools and machinery won't occupy much of either your attention or your wallet.

Good luck!

I can see your points here, but...

I think to say things like 'if you are serious about making hardwood furniture...' you are basically saying if you have spent a lot of money on gear/tools you aren't serious. Or you won't be making anything worthwhile.

For me, serious is doing it to make a living. Then your priorities are definitely changed.

Everything else it doesn't matter - buy what you want if it makes it nicer as a hobby experience. If you want a gigantic Tablesaw in your single garage because this is going to be used on every project you foresee​ - do it. After more of a hand tool workshop 'Zen' experience? - do it, go down that route. You could even go nuts with a bunch of Lie Neilson stuff and crazy expensive measuring and marking tools.

I see some amateurs on YouTube with £3K+ Hammer etc. tablesaws in their tiny workshops, and they are cranking out interesting stuff, for example.

I suppose these are different questions... 'what is the minimum you can get away with to get going'? - answer very little. Or, what do I 'want' to make it nicer/easier etc.

 

[SammyQ]

PM sent to SteveF.

Sam

 

[paulrockliffe]

Recommend these people and these castors: http://www.castors-online.co.uk/acatalo ... tml#SID=39 especially on tamped concrete or a slightly rough surface, on a smooth surface they can run away with your equipment if there is a slope, hence the brake's being essential, the brake's lock both the wheel and the turning ability so very stable once activated.

Mike

They look the business, thanks. Always great to get a recommendation.

I'm guessing not every castor needs a brake - i.e, two diagonally opposing brakes would suffice?

Graeme

I have those castors and they're very good. However they're of identical quality to the sets of flightcase castors that are available here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie ... &sshmPath=

They're £18 a set delivered for 100mm wheels, all 4 with brakes, compared with the £45 a set for 2 brakes and 2 swivels I paid castors-online for 80mm wheels. I did have a few problems; the first arrived with 1 castor in the box, the second order had two of the 8 in the box, but they sorted that out immediately. I did wonder at that point whether they were priced per item but the listing was wrong, but they've continued to send me sets of four for £18, so I've now got everything on these ones and couple of spare sets ready for future projects.

 

[Grawschbags]

Recommend these people and these castors: http://www.castors-online.co.uk/acatalo ... tml#SID=39 especially on tamped concrete or a slightly rough surface, on a smooth surface they can run away with your equipment if there is a slope, hence the brake's being essential, the brake's lock both the wheel and the turning ability so very stable once activated.

Mike

They look the business, thanks. Always great to get a recommendation.

I'm guessing not every castor needs a brake - i.e, two diagonally opposing brakes would suffice?

Graeme

I have those castors and they're very good. However they're of identical quality to the sets of flightcase castors that are available here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie ... &sshmPath=

They're £18 a set delivered for 100mm wheels, all 4 with brakes, compared with the £45 a set for 2 brakes and 2 swivels I paid castors-online for 80mm wheels. I did have a few problems; the first arrived with 1 castor in the box, the second order had two of the 8 in the box, but they sorted that out immediately. I did wonder at that point whether they were priced per item but the listing was wrong, but they've continued to send me sets of four for £18, so I've now got everything on these ones and couple of spare sets ready for future projects.

Good to know, thanks for that.

 

[Grawschbags]

Some people have suggested that after trying the AW10 it isn't really a big enough jump up in quality from the TS200/250. I've got a TS250M2, a track saw and a bandsaw. In a 3m x 6m shed. Works well. Depends mostly on if you are prepared to let a tablesaw dominate or not. If you do it will work great but take up loads of space. I cut wider wood and sheets on the tracksaw and narrower pieces on the tablesaw. The bandsaw is actually really pretty good at ripping accurately too when set up right, but you then need to clean up the edge.

As with pcb1962, I would keep the tracksaw over the tablesaw if I had to, but I don't and won't The TS250 standard without extensions or slider works fine for me in a fairly small footprint. It's built down to a cost but it works.

Sorry, missed this one yesterday...

That's interesting the not too different quality between the two types of saw. I did wonder what the ultimate differences would be between the them.

As I said, I'm not averse to buying a more portable saw, and having it mounted on a mobile base. Just want to make an informed decision on what "style" to get, and have no regrets in buying it.

The more I think about it, it would be good to have the option to manoeuvre one a bit easier.

Thanks.

 

[edcruwys]

The table saw will be used more than any other kit you may buy. Do not be tempted to buy all the add on tables as these will make the machine too big and heavy...the Axminster 10" is sold incrementally so buy the minimum you can get away with (roller stands are useful for supporting sheet material). Do however mount the machine on a mobile base as turning the saw 90º for ripping with the door open will be useful. Consider building a wooden add on to the outside of your garage to house the bag extractor but remember to vent it back into the garage....this arrangement saves space. A planer thicknesser (again on a mob base) and a router table would be a great set up and I wouldn't concern yourself over bandsaw as you are so tight for space.

 

[paulrockliffe]

Dropping your router into the tablesaw cabinet is a great way to sae a bit of space as well. I built a router table a couple of years ago, but now I've got a reasonably table saw I'm going to move the router to free up some more space.

 

[Grawschbags]

The table saw will be used more than any other kit you may buy. Do not be tempted to buy all the add on tables as these will make the machine too big and heavy...the Axminster 10" is sold incrementally so buy the minimum you can get away with (roller stands are useful for supporting sheet material). Do however mount the machine on a mobile base as turning the saw 90º for ripping with the door open will be useful. Consider building a wooden add on to the outside of your garage to house the bag extractor but remember to vent it back into the garage....this arrangement saves space. A planer thicknesser (again on a mob base) and a router table would be a great set up and I wouldn't concern yourself over bandsaw as you are so tight for space.

Yeah, I had seen all the add-ons available for the saw, but have resisted the urge so far. I must admit, I do like the idea of the sliding table...

I'd love to put the extraction system outside, unfortunately this would mean drilling through the brickwork of the house to achieve this. So a no go... it's not a forever home though, so I'll be more selective with the next house!

I do want a bandsaw at some point though.