Simon James holdfasts

[condeesteso]

Not sure how many of us are aware of these holdfasts, but Simon sent me a pair to try / test a few weeks ago.
I'll own up to being a very big fan of traditional holdfasts (forge-bent steel, 3/4 hole, one hammer, that's it) - so I was keen to try them.
I think Simon has done a fair bit of tuning on these holdfasts - as we learned a good while ago from the late Richard T, they are not quite as simple to make as they appear and subtle changes to dimensions and angles can make significant differences to the way they behave.
I'd say the obvious test is grip, but just as important - the ability to act progressively. Regular users will know this, but it might be assumed that these are quite crude on/off things. That should not be the case at all - if made well they are progressive and I think that is very important. Simon has got these nice, you can tap and feel the holdfast feed into the bench top in very small increments, so clamping pressure can be controlled.

These holdfasts are powerful when needed too, here a Mancuna pillar drill on the end of a 2m beech board ( I'd say the Mancuna was about 20Kg)

They are very nicely made indeed, complete with a nice branding mark on the toe.

At the moment Richard Maguire has some (a few) and I understand they will soon be available from Workshop Heaven, £49 a pair I am told.
I still use Richard's as well of course, they are special after all. But it is very good I think to have proper hot forged holdfasts being made here in the UK again - well done indeed Simon.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I wanted some of Richard T's, but sadly he left us before I could buy them. So when I got the email from the Maguires introducing Simon's, I immediately ordered a pair. They arrived at the beginning of last week.

This is in anticipation of a bench rebuild as soon as I can, as, embarrassingly, my bench has no dog holes at all presently (you learn to live with it, honestly)*. But they actually work in my old "pretend" Workmates (glorified trestles really), and I've already been using them in anger, holding down the skirting boards I've been cleaning up

I am really, really, pleased with them. In fact, I was showing them off last night to another forum member. I completely agree with Condeesteso about the shape, and the thought and craftsmanship that's gone into them. They have the subtlety you need, but I've also found I can just drop one in a dog hole (no thumping required) and immediately use it as a handle to lift trestle and workpiece together. The bench top rebuild is on the list, and this is an extra incentive to get on with it.

Meanwhile, I'm really pleased that Richard and Helen have decided to sell these, and more so that Simon has started to make them. My Christmas present to me

E.

PS: Mods, I hope nobody minds, please delete if you do: http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/workbench-holdfasts/.

*In my defence the bench does have two traditional Record holdfast collars, but they're not well sited and I'll do better next time.

 

[Andy RV]

They look great and like you said it's fantastic that we have a UK forged option, however I doubt i'll ever wear my Richard T holdfasts out so i'll probably never try any others!

 

[MusicMan]

Excellent news. There are some at the same price on eBay, maybe also Simon James? But it is great to get a detailed report like this as one cannot get subtlety from the bay! I'll be getting a pair.

Keith

 

[MusicMan]

Query - how much depth below the top surface of the bench do the holdfasts need? (I have cupboards a bit below the underside of the bench).

keith

 

[Phil Pascoe]

4" - 5" maybe? 6" at most - that's clamping a thin piece down. (RT's anyway)

 

[Eric The Viking]

Just measured my Simon James pair:

The reach is about 5 1/2" (side of pillar to centre of pad);
The height of the pillar below the pad is approx. 11 1/2";
The overall height is a tad less than 14".

So if you had 10" clearance from the surface of the bench you'd probably be fine with the thinnest material, as you'll inevitably need a block under the pad. Even then, I've heard of people drilling through the top of any close-fitting carcase underneath, the only drawback being that stuff (sawdust mainly) falls in.

I can't remember The pillar height on my Record screw-down holdfasts, but it's comparable. I don't have any drawers below, but I keep the MIG welder trolley under there, and it's stacked with stuff (gauntlets, mask, spray cans, etc.). I can't remember ever hitting anything, but the nearest collar to the edge is about 9" back (one reason I'm redoing it - too far back!).

HTH,

E.

 

[MusicMan]

Many thanks, Phil and Eric. I have 9" from the top of the bench to the top of the cupboard, so a 2" block or drilling the carcase would both work. Looks like SJ's are a bit bigger than RT's. Very helpful.

Keith

 

[user 21737]

Just measured my Simon James pair:

The reach is about 5 1/2" (side of pillar to centre of pad);
The height of the pillar below the pad is approx. 11 1/2";
The overall height is a tad less than 14".

So if you had 10" clearance from the surface of the bench you'd probably be fine with the thinnest material, as you'll inevitably need a block under the pad. Even then, I've heard of people drilling through the top of any close-fitting carcase underneath, the only drawback being that stuff (sawdust mainly) falls in.

I can't remember The pillar height on my Record screw-down holdfasts, but it's comparable. I don't have any drawers below, but I keep the MIG welder trolley under there, and it's stacked with stuff (gauntlets, mask, spray cans, etc.). I can't remember ever hitting anything, but the nearest collar to the edge is about 9" back (one reason I'm redoing it - too far back!).

HTH,

E.

This might be a silly question but I'm looking into getting some holdfasts and I like the idea of this tradition ones compared to the newer hand tighten ones.

If you use a big block under the pad (2-3" thick) to decrease the length of holdfast underneath the bench would it affect the holding power? I ask because my 'bench' is essentially some MDF on top of some cupboards and I'm not 100% sure whether I have 10" of room underneath or not.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You need 2" - 3" or thereabouts. Too thick or too thin and they won't grip. You can build the thickness up with something if too thin or counterbore the holes if too thick so the hold fast grips further up. I'm not sure I see how the block will decrease the length.

 

[Tom K]

. I'm not sure I see how the block will decrease the length.

I think he means to place a block under the head making the work piece effectively thicker and thus having less holdfast poking out under bench (homer) Of course his bench needs a little thickness for the holdfasts to grip.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, of course. When he said the bench was a bit of mdf on some cupboards, I envisaged it being beefed up underneath.

 

[condeesteso]

re Musicman's question - Simon's are indeed longer than Richards (an inch or so, sorry not measured but Eric has dimensions above). I have found these holdfasts work very well when raised quite a way up, like in pic one on my OP. With your 9" clearance, if you were using say 7" of that I reckon you would get good results. The bigger question is top thickness and the nature of mdf. The general guide I think is to have min 45mm thickness (hole depth) up to say 90, maybe 100mm. Richard T optimised his for depths (top thickness) around 45 - 60mm. Simon has tested thicker up to around 100mm I believe. My top is 92mm but I counterbored from under so the holdfast sees 60mm. My slight concern would be the durability of the mdf 3/4 holes, as the holdfasts put a big sideways load on the hole and it might distort over time. Might be fine of course. Main thing I expect is you really need min 45mm top thickness / hole depth - though I haven't actually tested in mdf or thinner tops .

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It would possibly be a good idea to treat the holes with something to harden them a little before any damage? Get your retaliation in first?

 

[Eric The Viking]

It would possibly be a good idea to treat the holes with something to harden them a little before any damage? Get your retaliation in first?

I don't think polyurethane varnish will do any harm and it's actually quite grippy. The workmate jaws in the pictures I posted are about 3/4" thick MDF, quite worn, and they grip well in those dog holes, but I think the corners of the holes (the arrises if you will) will probably chip and chew fairly quickly, and they'll slip once the holes get rounded off.

I think with the right material treated in the right way, you'd be successful with anything from 1" upwards to about 3". Beyond that it would be worth counterboring as most of the grip comes from the hole's corners and being at a definite angle to those.

I'll bet that certain woods, particularly beech, work better than others. Beech seems to be quite good with crushing loads and the fibres spring back well (e.g in chopping boards). So if it's a bench edge, all should be well, as you are after all crushing end grain (in the hole) mostly when you use a holdfast in a traditional way.

E.

 

[Togalosh]

Hello Douglas,

Richard from Olton, Solihull ...is dead ?!!

(the chap who had a mini forge in his back garden & made infill planes ? :shock: )

How, when ??

Togs

 

[condeesteso]

Yes Togs - Richard died in May 2013, aged 46. Very well remembered here and many of us have happy tales (and a few bits'n'bobs he made along the way). Here's the man at work...

 

[Togalosh]

That is very sad. He really impressed me. I went home very uplifted after my visit/s to his place...

 

[MusicMan]

Many thanks all. My bench top is 70 mm beech so that looks about optimal.

Keith