Silver Steel

[Richard_C]

Ages ago I got a mixed batch of silver steel, must be 30+ years and I don't even remember what it was for. Anyway, I have some leftovers including 30cm lengths of 10mm round and square. I was thinking of making a couple of small detailing turning tools for small jobs, light cuts.

AFAIK silver steel has chromium and carbon so is a bit like tool steel (and nothing to do with silver). Does anyone know if you treat it like carbon steel or like HSS? Happy with trial and error, but any thoughts or exeperiece welcome.

 

[D_W]

It's a high carbon steel with additives in it generally for quality and ease (like hardenability, etc), but I don't see anything in it that would generate large free carbides of other types. So it's definitely not going to tolerate heat like HSS>

Older types were used for razors, and I wouldn't be surprised if the alloy was used to make fine files (as in, it's a notch above typical chisel or plane iron steel - more carbon and lower amounts of alloying elements).

 

[Richard_C]

Thanks. I will go gently and quench as I go on the grinder and see what happens. Nothing to lose aside from a bit of my time. I will make a quick and cheerful handle so as not to waste too much time if its a total flop and make nicer ones if it's OK.

 

[D_W]

Is the bar fully hardened? You can lay a wet paper towel over the steel all the way to the edge and put your fingers on it where you're putting pressure against the grinder (unless you have some kind of jig and don't get your hands near the grinder).

I'm thinking hand tools, but always turn with a skew, too, so much of my grinding is a lot like grinding hand tools.

wet paper towel doesn't do anything other than spit off and crumble when it gets to a grinder wheel, so not dangerous, but any heat that comes into the body of the tool is made to work evaporating water.

 

[J-G]

I've used Silver Steel to make punches (2,3,4,5,6,8 & 10mm Ø) for making Copper & Silver discs. In the 'soft' state it is easily worked with HSS tools and then can be heated to a bright cherry red before quenching in water. The resulting tool (which is only case hardened) is OK for my needs and might cut brass but I haven't tried. I have also tried making multi dia. form tools for drilling wood by the same method but with little success.

 

[redhunter350]

Richard, Silver steel is a tool steel ! very useful material, easy to work when in the annealed (as supplied) condition and easy to heat treat aka harden and temper.
Are you making tools for wood turning or metal ? Either way the method is pretty much the same the only difference is the tempering. Make your tool whatever shape you want whilst soft, file saw grind, Dremel etc.
To harden heat to a “cherry red” in subdued light, not bright sunlight, and quench in oil, cooking oil works well or any thin engine oil, hydraulic oil etc. Alternatively you can use water but heat only to a dull red, if it’s cherry red there is a chance of cracks when hardened.
To temper, polish the surface of the cutting area plus some and ensure it is de- greased and no finger prints, now assuming its say a chisel or simple lathe tool gently heat the none cutting/tang end and watch the polished part change colour as the heat is transmitted there, for cutting metal you want a pale straw colour for wood a dark straw colour then quench. This will take practice and experience and the colours MUST be viewed in subdued/shaded daylight NOT artificial light.
An abridged version of the process but you can achieve what you want to do with a little practice, tempering is the key! It’s a good idea to use a few fire bricks to make a hearth for heating and use a fairly large gas blow lamp.
Hope this helps

 

[Richard_C]

Thanks for detailed replies. It's woodturning, thought I would give it a go to supplement the big proper tools I have, I sometimes do small/fine work and as I already have the silver steel nothing to lose.

A ramble.

About 40 years ago when I lived in Cheshire I used to go to a what was called a metalwork evening class, which was in fact a loosley supervised chance for a few people to use a good secondary school workshop once a week. I did a bit of this and that including some tempering so I know what to look out for. I still have some of the things I made, including a clutch centering tool for a 1725cc Hillman Hunter and a slide hammer for getting big dents out of bodywork.

Places like that don't seem to exist anymore.

Slightly off topic but relevant. When we got our first house in '76, stony broke after laying out the deposit, it had a back yard and I wanted to have a fire/bbq and invite friends round. A local scrap yard (remember them) sold me an old steel car wheel for 25p. I cut the long sides out of an empty Duckhams 20/50 gallon can, whacked it into a circle and stood the wheel on top with a bit of folded chicken wire to stop stuff falling through the hole. A perfect hearth, and with an oven grid on top a decent bbq. The oil can is long gone but I still use the wheel with some smokeless coal to get things hot. or with a few bits of firebrick and a blowlamp. When its not in use, it hangs on the wall with the hosepipe round it. Excelllent value for 25p, every home shoudl have one.

So, grinding and shaping then the wheel, bricks & blowlamp comes out .... at dusk so I can see the colours.

 

[flh801978]

J-G
Silver steel heated to red and quenched is fully hardened not case hardened.
Case hardening is for hardening non hardenable steel such as mild steel by adding carbon in a case thickness layer

 

[J-G]

J-G
Silver steel heated to red and quenched is fully hardened not case hardened.
Case hardening is for hardening non hardenable steel such as mild steel by adding carbon in a case thickness layer

I bow to your greater knowledge - apart from making the punches I mentioned, I was last in a hardening shop in 1959 during my apprenticeship - Memories of Cyanide and Nitriding along with massive vats of quenching oil!!

 

[D_W]

J-G
Silver steel heated to red and quenched is fully hardened not case hardened.
Case hardening is for hardening non hardenable steel such as mild steel by adding carbon in a case thickness layer

agree - for the average person trying to work with 1.1-1.2% carbon steel, the bigger issue is going to be preventing carbide growth. There are forge temperature cycling operations that work really well with 1% steel - I haven't tried them with 1.2% carbon steel, which doesn't sound like a big difference, but it's about twice as much free carbon that ends up walking around at critical temp and needs to be driven to a higher temperature if big carbides form. My experience with it is still better hardness (even if not fineness) than 0.9-1% carbon steel, though, and ability to support an edge (good strength) that's fine.

To get something usable and good is a whole lot easier than great, though, so getting it a step past critical and quenching should make a very good tool as long as it's not tempered back too far.

Spark from what is essentially considered file stock here is intense and can literally be combustion below a fast belt instead of just sparking. HSS and even O1 would never be confused with it (They feel like they're greased on a belt compared to the very dry easy grinding silver steel types).

 

[D_W]

Thanks for detailed replies. It's woodturning, thought I would give it a go to supplement the big proper tools I have, I sometimes do small/fine work and as I already have the silver steel nothing to lose.

A ramble.

About 40 years ago when I lived in Cheshire I used to go to a what was called a metalwork evening class, which was in fact a loosley supervised chance for a few people to use a good secondary school workshop once a week. I did a bit of this and that including some tempering so I know what to look out for. I still have some of the things I made, including a clutch centering tool for a 1725cc Hillman Hunter and a slide hammer for getting big dents out of bodywork.

Places like that don't seem to exist anymore.

Slightly off topic but relevant. When we got our first house in '76, stony broke after laying out the deposit, it had a back yard and I wanted to have a fire/bbq and invite friends round. A local scrap yard (remember them) sold me an old steel car wheel for 25p. I cut the long sides out of an empty Duckhams 20/50 gallon can, whacked it into a circle and stood the wheel on top with a bit of folded chicken wire to stop stuff falling through the hole. A perfect hearth, and with an oven grid on top a decent bbq. The oil can is long gone but I still use the wheel with some smokeless coal to get things hot. or with a few bits of firebrick and a blowlamp. When its not in use, it hangs on the wall with the hosepipe round it. Excelllent value for 25p, every home shoudl have one.

So, grinding and shaping then the wheel, bricks & blowlamp comes out .... at dusk so I can see the colours.

I wouldn't use it for roughing dirt or super high speed, but it should be easily sharpenable and good for detail work. I'm sure plenty was turned on powered lathes with similar steel - perhaps tempered just a bit softer than a plane iron or chisel (or maybe not). On a slower lathe or one powered by you, you'd far prefer it over HSS. I don't suspect many people are turning with things like a spring pole these days, though - unless they're bored and inspired by a youtube video.

There's more than one story of flying bits from carbon steel turning tools, though - the last one I heard was the toolmaker at williamsburg mentioning tempering a file far back to make a large skew and still having it break in half on a powered lathe with the business end flying. i make chisels with files but always anneal them first and hammer them some just as excuse to cycle temperature a few times with them.