Silly question

[DannyEssex]

Is important to have the jaws of your vice square?

Only I'm having a nightmare trying to plane square :lol: I've watched loads of videos on the tube and read so much differing advice I'm forgetting what the advice was :lol:

I have a record 52 1/2 which I picked up at a car boot sale and a lovely Record #5 kindly given to me by Graham Haydon.

For the last week or so I have just been planing some scraps of wood (mostly cheap pine) and trying to get the boards square. I have seen the Paul Sellers video where he uses winding sticks, I would try that but I cant make any as I cant plane square lol,

I get a face nice and smooth and with a gnats daylight showing under my square, I then look at the board and its sloped from one end to the other. So I then try and level it out by eye and it starts again, like a vicious circle.

I start off with a 2" thick piece and end up with a 1/2" piece by the time im almost square.

I understand that Its all practice practice, practice, but its frustrating as hell!! My iron is sharp, the sole is flat. I then thought maybe because the faces of the jaws might be off, then maybe that is transferring to my planing????

I'm going to keep at it all week as I have a weeks holiday to kill, so will keep on going, just after a little advice please

Thanks all
Dan

 

[tool-me-up]

In theory you could have the worst vice jaws in the world and still plane square.

If you are using the vice jaws to eye up your edge then yes its possible as you will naturally want to plane the top so it looks level with the vice.

Try and just ignore the vice and plane level with the opposite of your wood ( that is you want both sides to be parrallel.

Another quick test is to plane a decent amount off, spin the work 180 degrees, keeping the planed surface up over and plane again ( so your planing the same side but on the opposite direction). Then check with a square if its curved in the middle its your planing!

 

[carlb40]

I would only use a vice for doing the final edge 90 degrees to the face. Any prep work such as straightening/ flattening would be done on the bench top against stops.

Holding warped / twisted timbers in a vice to do the above will give a false reading.

Have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b8BchfQSAw

 

[heatherw]

Are you planing to a line?

 

[DannyEssex]

Thanks Tool-me-up

I would only use a vice for doing the final edge 90 degrees to the face. Any prep work such as straightening/ flattening would be done on the bench top against stops.

Holding warped / twisted timbers in a vice to do the above will give a false reading.

Have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b8BchfQSAw

This is where it get a bit embarrassing :lol: My "Bench" is an old table top and is a little awkward to hold the work to the "bench", But from now on I will find a way to hold it down. After watching Paul Sellers and a couple of others plane some rough timber in their vice, I thought that was the way to go. I have watched Graham's videos and I need to watch them again I think lol.

Are you planing to a line?

No I haven't tried that, I figured if I am starting off with warped/twisted boards then my line would be the same? But will try that tomorrow, Thanks


I know my main problem is trying too much to fast lol, I know if I calm down and take my time it will come but I'm being to impatient :lol:

Thanks for your help

 

[Steve Maskery]

Is your try-square true? If it is out by even a small amount then by the time you have gone all round your workpiece you will be miles out.
To check if it is square, use it on a known straight edge of a board, Mark the line with a pencil then flip the square and repeat. If the two pencil lines are parallel, then the square is good and you can eliminate it as a source of the error.
HTH
Steve

 

[DannyEssex]

Is your try-square true? If it is out by even a small amount then by the time you have gone all round your workpiece you will be miles out.
To check if it is square, use it on a known straight edge of a board, Mark the line with a pencil then flip the square and repeat. If the two pencil lines are parallel, then the square is good and you can eliminate it as a source of the error.
HTH
Steve

Thanks Steve, im sure it is but will check in the morning

 

[rafezetter]

Is your try-square true? If it is out by even a small amount then by the time you have gone all round your workpiece you will be miles out.
To check if it is square, use it on a known straight edge of a board, Mark the line with a pencil then flip the square and repeat. If the two pencil lines are parallel, then the square is good and you can eliminate it as a source of the error.
HTH
Steve

Thanks Steve, im sure it is but will check in the morning

you will be amazed how many are not unless you buy something like an engineers square that's guaranteed, I've bought several including a bahco and returned them before just accepting it and filing to suit; try-square trueness isn't a given.

I also bought one of these and found the circular thing off by several mm from 90 - thankfully all I had to do was remove the sticker and reposition it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-3470...389552650&sr=8-13&keywords=square+combination

 

[carlb40]

Are you planing to a line?

No I haven't tried that, I figured if I am starting off with warped/twisted boards then my line would be the same? But will try that tomorrow, Thanks


I know my main problem is trying too much to fast lol, I know if I calm down and take my time it will come but I'm being to impatient :lol:

Thanks for your help

No. What you would do is take your bent timber and draw a straight line on it. Use a straight edge if possible.

Then with square transfer the line across the ends - both of them. Then on the other side join the line between the ends. That should give you a straight line all around to plane to.

 

[DannyEssex]

Many thanks for that Carl, much appreciated. Shall try that out

 

[carlb40]

No worries Danny, sometimes it's easier to show than write it.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Hi Danny
There are no silly questions only silly answers
If the timber is as carlb40 sketch you may wish to turn it over, it's better to plane the concave side first. If your Jack plane is flat it should take out the high spots (the ends)
Use a straight edge, rule or the edge of the plane as a reference as to what is flat and mark the high spots. When planing you have to fight gravity, start planning with your weight on the front knob of the plane as the planes on the timber transfer your weight the the middle of the plane and you guessed it at the far end of the board have the majority of your weight on the back handle of the plane.
If you have a high bump in the middle then only plane the middle.
Cheers Peter

 

[DannyEssex]

Thanks for that Peter, that helps


Another question,
When checking along the face with, say a rule, should I slide the rule along from all angles? Such as diagonally or is straight best?

I tried to draw in paint what I mean if it makes any sense?

The red for the rule, and blue for daylight

Once again, thanks for all the advice

 

[carlb40]

This guy goes through some info - its a bench build but the same principles apply.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I5kPTjxUPg

From about 3 min in.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Danny
I would use the straight edge across the board in three places the ends and the middle to check if each area is flat, I would also check along it's length at the front and back edge. But I am afraid as you noted this will not show if the board is in twist for that I would use winding sticks.
You can see the Veritas ones on our Website. You may be able to check for twist by putting your timber on a flat surface around the home, possibly try a Formica kitchen worktop with some dry coffee on it, this may show up the high spots that need more planing.
Cheers Peter

 

[DannyEssex]

Thanks again Carl and Peter, I assumed I would have to run my straight edge the whole length of the work piece, not just the ends and middle.

I am going to have get some winding sticks next lol

I enjoyed that video, another channel to subscribe to :lol:

 

[carlb40]

Thanks again Carl and Peter, I assumed I would have to run my straight edge the whole length of the work piece, not just the ends and middle.

I am going to have get some winding sticks next lol

I enjoyed that video, another channel to subscribe to :lol:

Yes his channel is interesting, i subbed myself after that vid.

As to winding sticks anything that is straight / same thickness etc will do. Something like 2 sections of ply/ mdf will work.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I dont run my straight edge along the timber as it will pick up dust and hide any daylight.
Peter

 

[DannyEssex]

I dont run my straight edge along the timber as it will pick up dust and hide any daylight.
Peter

I didn't think of that, thanks

 

[Peter Sefton]

It's being that fussy that makes the difference or sends you mad, enjoy your planing Peter