Shutting the door once the horse has bolted... security tips

[n0legs]

Then what is the point of your post, the discussion centres around protecting a remote workshop, if I where you I would listen to what David has to say rather than trying to trying to be clever, the guy is a seriously experienced professional in this field and is offering the benefit of his expert knowledge for the benefit of you all, a little respect would not be out of place.

Maybe you know better but I know who I would rather rely on, I can just see it now.....

"Well your Honour I'm really sorry Jon-Joe Pikey has bean eaten by my guar...... Sorry pet timberwolf but Mr Nolegs said it would be ok...... What do you mean "take him down!!"

Meanwhile in Cwbran, tucked up snug in their own bed.......

Whereas David may be an experienced individual with the literal side of law I come from a family of cops, some would consider me to be the black sheep of the family as I did not follow others into the force.
A simple fact, and let's just deal in fact, the police and the CPS have neither the time or resources to prosecute anyone properly.
If a burglar was to break in any place where a dog or any kind of other deterrent was in place that could or would do him harm, he would not try and counter sue his victim willingly.
I'll ask the old man how many in his 30 years popped up the nick to complain that Mrs Jones dog had took a lump out of him when he was doing the place over. We are not in the States and criminals ain't that clever.

With regards to the law I'll give you one very simple fact, a fact that David I hope will agree with.
It's not what you know it's what you can prove.

I built my own house in Caldicot, here's the post code NP265JH. It's on the outskirts of an industrial estate and the nearest neighbours were about 500 yards away. When we were building it and not living there we got broke into twice.
One arrest made and one successful prosecution. The other case went into the wind.

We then bought a static caravan and moved to site and with us we took the dogs. Coke a German Doberman and Tia an American Doberman, both pets.
We got broke into twice more. The first time there was evidence that the dogs had had the intruders, a witness (actually the Network Rail signal man) said a young looking fellow had screamed, shouted then jumped the fence onto the railway line limped for a bit then legged it. Police called, statements made, still waiting.

The second time we got broke into again it appeared the dogs had once again done their job. Certainly Coke had.
Again police called, statements given and this time a bit of a result all be it a year or so later.
A group had been caught doing over the factories. When asked if they had done our place apparently they sniggered and shuffled a bit, but no admission came forward except they knew the dogs there were "crazy". I have no doubt the police had the right boys.
We knew Coke had had at least one of them, for a few days after the break in we noticed he was not eating properly. So off to the vets, where we find Cokey boy has a couple of loose teeth.
We asked Mr Vet how this could be ? Over excited play with a tug toy he says. I ask if someone who had their clothes unfortunately caught in my dogs mouth could cause it, he replied yes, very possible.
We no longer had tug toys for the dogs, they were both too strong to play with.

Following the second break in PC XXXXX XXXXX from the dog unit called into see us. I won't bull$h1t anyone here, he's a family friend. He had read about the incident in the log and decided a social visit was in order. He had nothing but praise for the dogs and what they had done. Funny really as his colleagues said the same when they first attended, both times. Real world policemen in a real world I guess.
He displayed an opinion that is not alien to me, mostly due to the length of time I have been around the police and the level of involvement I have. Let's just say there are many serving police officers who believe there are a few interpretations of reasonable force, everyone reading this will know what I mean.

So Richard if you think I was being clever then crack on.
David, rather excellently I add, brought us all up to speed on the law regarding guard dogs. I pointed out about a pet dog. I do concede my potato comment was a little cheeky.
Upon consultation with my legal adviser I asked the question could a dog kept at a workshop be classed as a pet. The answer came back has who has the time to prove different in the case of your average break in. He did point out some exceptions that would warrant a more drawn out investigation, especially those in the nature of dead bodies and limbs being lost. Who knows, maybe someone will try it out.
After all down here and I'm sure the Abergavenny members will know/remember, the case recently of a tyre firm owner who whilst his premises were being broken into went to his premises, called by a silent alarm system, and beat the $h1t out of both of the scumbags . He was found not guilty of GBH and ABH if I remember correctly. The law saw some sense that day.
Actually here's the story:-
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... 7.display/

I unfortunately have real world experience of break ins and of keeping dogs as pets and what they do to protect the place they live.
I also have some knowledge of the law, as any resposible dog owner should have, and if I don't know I have a few good people around me who can advise.

If I can be bothered to pull myself from under the covers down here in sunny CWMBRAN I might go and find some of the incident numbers for you to check up on for yourself.
PR1CK

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Then what is the point of your post, the discussion centres around protecting a remote workshop, if I where you I would listen to what David has to say rather than trying to trying to be clever, the guy is a seriously experienced professional in this field and is offering the benefit of his expert knowledge for the benefit of you all, a little respect would not be out of place.

Maybe you know better but I know who I would rather rely on, I can just see it now.....

"Well your Honour I'm really sorry Jon-Joe Pikey has bean eaten by my guar...... Sorry pet timberwolf but Mr Nolegs said it would be ok...... What do you mean "take him down!!"

Meanwhile in Cwbran, tucked up snug in their own bed.......

Whereas David may be an experienced individual with the literal side of law I come from a family of cops, some would consider me to be the black sheep of the family as I did not follow others into the force.
A simple fact, and let's just deal in fact, the police and the CPS have neither the time or resources to prosecute anyone properly.
If a burglar was to break in any place where a dog or any kind of other deterrent was in place that could or would do him harm, he would not try and counter sue his victim willingly.
I'll ask the old man how many in his 30 years popped up the nick to complain that Mrs Jones dog had took a lump out of him when he was doing the place over. We are not in the States and criminals ain't that clever.

With regards to the law I'll give you one very simple fact, a fact that David I hope will agree with.
It's not what you know it's what you can prove.

I built my own house in Caldicot, here's the post code NP265JH. It's on the outskirts of an industrial estate and the nearest neighbours were about 500 yards away. When we were building it and not living there we got broke into twice.
One arrest made and one successful prosecution. The other case went into the wind.

We then bought a static caravan and moved to site and with us we took the dogs. Coke a German Doberman and Tia an American Doberman, both pets.
We got broke into twice more. The first time there was evidence that the dogs had had the intruders, a witness (actually the Network Rail signal man) said a young looking fellow had screamed, shouted then jumped the fence onto the railway line limped for a bit then legged it. Police called, statements made, still waiting.

The second time we got broke into again it appeared the dogs had once again done their job. Certainly Coke had.
Again police called, statements given and this time a bit of a result all be it a year or so later.
A group had been caught doing over the factories. When asked if they had done our place apparently they sniggered and shuffled a bit, but no admission came forward except they knew the dogs there were "crazy". I have no doubt the police had the right boys.
We knew Coke had had at least one of them, for a few days after the break in we noticed he was not eating properly. So off to the vets, where we find Cokey boy has a couple of loose teeth.
We asked Mr Vet how this could be ? Over excited play with a tug toy he says. I ask if someone who had their clothes unfortunately caught in my dogs mouth could cause it, he replied yes, very possible.
We no longer had tug toys for the dogs, they were both too strong to play with.

Following the second break in PC XXXXX XXXXX from the dog unit called into see us. I won't bull$h1t anyone here, he's a family friend. He had read about the incident in the log and decided a social visit was in order. He had nothing but praise for the dogs and what they had done. Funny really as his colleagues said the same when they first attended, both times. Real world policemen in a real world I guess.
He displayed an opinion that is not alien to me, mostly due to the length of time I have been around the police and the level of involvement I have. Let's just say there are many serving police officers who believe there are a few interpretations of reasonable force, everyone reading this will know what I mean.

So Richard if you think I was being clever then crack on.
David, rather excellently I add, brought us all up to speed on the law regarding guard dogs. I pointed out about a pet dog. I do concede my potato comment was a little cheeky.
Upon consultation with my legal adviser I asked the question could a dog kept at a workshop be classed as a pet. The answer came back has who has the time to prove different in the case of your average break in. He did point out some exceptions that would warrant a more drawn out investigation, especially those in the nature of dead bodies and limbs being lost. Who knows, maybe someone will try it out.
After all down here and I'm sure the Abergavenny members will know/remember, the case recently of a tyre firm owner who whilst his premises were being broken into went to his premises, called by a silent alarm system, and beat the $h1t out of both of the scumbags . He was found not guilty of GBH and ABH if I remember correctly. The law saw some sense that day.
Actually here's the story:-
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... 7.display/

I unfortunately have real world experience of break ins and of keeping dogs as pets and what they do to protect the place they live.
I also have some knowledge of the law, as any resposible dog owner should have, and if I don't know I have a few good people around me who can advise.

If I can be bothered to pull myself from under the covers down here in sunny CWMBRAN I might go and find some of the incident numbers for you to check up on for yourself.
PR1CK

It would appear this whole thread has got you very hot under the collar, it would seem your own past personal experiences have been contributory to your last post. I hope you can take the time to reflect on some of what has been said.

At the end of the day, I was only trying to highlight the law and what the OP and of course others are entitled to do to protect their property. And of course their responsibilities and liabilities as landlord or tenant.

Unfortunately and with the greatest of respect, the personal views of your police dog handling friend or family members or even your own experiences of crime would not be considered in mitigation should you contravene the relevant legislation. You are of course your own man and therefore responsible for your own actions, however and without wishing to appear sanctimonious I would recommend you take the time to read up on what is permitted under law and what is not. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not some left thinking liberal, on the contrary, if you ever met me it would not take you long to realise my way of thinking on such issues.

Just Remember, ignorance is no excuse under law.

Be careful.

David

 

[n0legs]

It would appear this whole thread has got you very hot under the collar, it would seem your own past personal experiences have been contributory to your last post. I hope you can take the time to reflect on some of what has been said.

At the end of the day, I was only trying to highlight the law and what the OP and of course others are entitled to do to protect their property. And of course their responsibilities and liabilities as landlord or tenant.

Unfortunately and with the greatest of respect, the personal views of your police dog handling friend or family members or even your own experiences of crime would not be considered in mitigation should you contravene the relevant legislation. You are of course your own man and therefore responsible for your own actions, however and without wishing to appear sanctimonious I would recommend you take the time to read up on what is permitted under law and what is not. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not some left thinking liberal, on the contrary, if you ever met me it would not take you long to realise my way of thinking on such issues.

Just Remember, ignorance is no excuse under law.

Be careful.

David

Hello David,
Thank you for your comments. Spoken like a true solicitor or is it lawyer or just a policeman ?
Anyway I'm not going to draw this out any longer than needs be.
I will make my final comment with regards to this current issue.
What you quote, (and quite rightly so, my own "advisers" would no doubt agree with all you have written and I am also aware of some of it) is the law in how it is written, unfortunately not how it is always applied.
You know what you know.
You may have seen the law applied in ways that will not always follow the letter of the law, I'm sure you will have been surprised at some time. So have most of us.
The opinions of the officers I have indicated in my previous post are true and may not be those of all officers around the country, I don't really care to be honest. I know what I know.

With regards to the law.
For as much as it is stacked in our corner to defend, protect and help us in equal measure it is stacked against us when it comes to how we can protect ourselves and our belongings. Reasonable force, now there's a good one.

Don't worry I do understand where you're coming from and I'm sure when you're off the clock you become one of us average joes, sharing many of our simple less complicated opinions on crime and punishment.
Please don't think I have an axe to grind with you and I do not mean any disrespect. Someone needs to be the voice of reason and offer clear guidance.

Opinions differ and people have different experiences of life, I certainly have had my fair share of both.
I've had my say and for me now this part of this thread is done.

Keep up the good work.
I'm glad you're not charging me by the hourly rate :lol:

 

[Richard S]

Then what is the point of your post, the discussion centres around protecting a remote workshop, if I where you I would listen to what David has to say rather than trying to trying to be clever, the guy is a seriously experienced professional in this field and is offering the benefit of his expert knowledge for the benefit of you all, a little respect would not be out of place.

Maybe you know better but I know who I would rather rely on, I can just see it now.....

"Well your Honour I'm really sorry Jon-Joe Pikey has bean eaten by my guar...... Sorry pet timberwolf but Mr Nolegs said it would be ok...... What do you mean "take him down!!"

Meanwhile in Cwbran, tucked up snug in their own bed.......

Whereas David may be an experienced individual with the literal side of law I come from a family of cops, some would consider me to be the black sheep of the family as I did not follow others into the force.
A simple fact, and let's just deal in fact, the police and the CPS have neither the time or resources to prosecute anyone properly.
If a burglar was to break in any place where a dog or any kind of other deterrent was in place that could or would do him harm, he would not try and counter sue his victim willingly.
I'll ask the old man how many in his 30 years popped up the nick to complain that Mrs Jones dog had took a lump out of him when he was doing the place over. We are not in the States and criminals ain't that clever.

With regards to the law I'll give you one very simple fact, a fact that David I hope will agree with.
It's not what you know it's what you can prove.

I built my own house in Caldicot, here's the post code NP265JH. It's on the outskirts of an industrial estate and the nearest neighbours were about 500 yards away. When we were building it and not living there we got broke into twice.
One arrest made and one successful prosecution. The other case went into the wind.

We then bought a static caravan and moved to site and with us we took the dogs. Coke a German Doberman and Tia an American Doberman, both pets.
We got broke into twice more. The first time there was evidence that the dogs had had the intruders, a witness (actually the Network Rail signal man) said a young looking fellow had screamed, shouted then jumped the fence onto the railway line limped for a bit then legged it. Police called, statements made, still waiting.

The second time we got broke into again it appeared the dogs had once again done their job. Certainly Coke had.
Again police called, statements given and this time a bit of a result all be it a year or so later.
A group had been caught doing over the factories. When asked if they had done our place apparently they sniggered and shuffled a bit, but no admission came forward except they knew the dogs there were "crazy". I have no doubt the police had the right boys.
We knew Coke had had at least one of them, for a few days after the break in we noticed he was not eating properly. So off to the vets, where we find Cokey boy has a couple of loose teeth.
We asked Mr Vet how this could be ? Over excited play with a tug toy he says. I ask if someone who had their clothes unfortunately caught in my dogs mouth could cause it, he replied yes, very possible.
We no longer had tug toys for the dogs, they were both too strong to play with.

Following the second break in PC XXXXX XXXXX from the dog unit called into see us. I won't bull$h1t anyone here, he's a family friend. He had read about the incident in the log and decided a social visit was in order. He had nothing but praise for the dogs and what they had done. Funny really as his colleagues said the same when they first attended, both times. Real world policemen in a real world I guess.
He displayed an opinion that is not alien to me, mostly due to the length of time I have been around the police and the level of involvement I have. Let's just say there are many serving police officers who believe there are a few interpretations of reasonable force, everyone reading this will know what I mean.

So Richard if you think I was being clever then crack on.
David, rather excellently I add, brought us all up to speed on the law regarding guard dogs. I pointed out about a pet dog. I do concede my potato comment was a little cheeky.
Upon consultation with my legal adviser I asked the question could a dog kept at a workshop be classed as a pet. The answer came back has who has the time to prove different in the case of your average break in. He did point out some exceptions that would warrant a more drawn out investigation, especially those in the nature of dead bodies and limbs being lost. Who knows, maybe someone will try it out.
After all down here and I'm sure the Abergavenny members will know/remember, the case recently of a tyre firm owner who whilst his premises were being broken into went to his premises, called by a silent alarm system, and beat the $h1t out of both of the scumbags . He was found not guilty of GBH and ABH if I remember correctly. The law saw some sense that day.
Actually here's the story:-
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... 7.display/

I unfortunately have real world experience of break ins and of keeping dogs as pets and what they do to protect the place they live.
I also have some knowledge of the law, as any resposible dog owner should have, and if I don't know I have a few good people around me who can advise.

If I can be bothered to pull myself from under the covers down here in sunny CWMBRAN I might go and find some of the incident numbers for you to check up on for yourself.
PR1CK

You make some valid comments but I do think you are being a little hard on your self signing off a Cwmbran Prick.

 

[n0legs]

Meanwhile in Cwbran, tucked up snug in their own bed.......

You make some valid comments but I do think you are being a little hard on your self signing off a Cwmbran Prick.

Thank you for the comments.

Just to clarify Richard, the reason for the bold print was to show you how Cwmbran is spelled.
Oh wait it's over there on the left under my name.
It's not "prick" . It actually says PR1CK, it's my new post serial numbering system.
We're into the C's now.
CUN7.

 

[Stormer1940]

An alarm sender will help as well. If the alarm is activated it will send a message or call your mobile to notify you or a trusted person. Vibration sensors are good as well, these will go off if windows are broken, general door surround/door disturbances ect.

Good luck with securing everything.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

It would appear this whole thread has got you very hot under the collar, it would seem your own past personal experiences have been contributory to your last post. I hope you can take the time to reflect on some of what has been said.

At the end of the day, I was only trying to highlight the law and what the OP and of course others are entitled to do to protect their property. And of course their responsibilities and liabilities as landlord or tenant.

Unfortunately and with the greatest of respect, the personal views of your police dog handling friend or family members or even your own experiences of crime would not be considered in mitigation should you contravene the relevant legislation. You are of course your own man and therefore responsible for your own actions, however and without wishing to appear sanctimonious I would recommend you take the time to read up on what is permitted under law and what is not. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not some left thinking liberal, on the contrary, if you ever met me it would not take you long to realise my way of thinking on such issues.

Just Remember, ignorance is no excuse under law.

Be careful.

David

Hello David,
Thank you for your comments. Spoken like a true solicitor or is it lawyer or just a policeman ?
Anyway I'm not going to draw this out any longer than needs be.
I will make my final comment with regards to this current issue.
What you quote, (and quite rightly so, my own "advisers" would no doubt agree with all you have written and I am also aware of some of it) is the law in how it is written, unfortunately not how it is always applied.
You know what you know.
You may have seen the law applied in ways that will not always follow the letter of the law, I'm sure you will have been surprised at some time. So have most of us.
The opinions of the officers I have indicated in my previous post are true and may not be those of all officers around the country, I don't really care to be honest. I know what I know.

With regards to the law.
For as much as it is stacked in our corner to defend, protect and help us in equal measure it is stacked against us when it comes to how we can protect ourselves and our belongings. Reasonable force, now there's a good one.

Don't worry I do understand where you're coming from and I'm sure when you're off the clock you become one of us average joes, sharing many of our simple less complicated opinions on crime and punishment.
Please don't think I have an axe to grind with you and I do not mean any disrespect. Someone needs to be the voice of reason and offer clear guidance.

Opinions differ and people have different experiences of life, I certainly have had my fair share of both.
I've had my say and for me now this part of this thread is done.

Keep up the good work.
I'm glad you're not charging me by the hourly rate :lol:

Your presumption on my job role was correct at the third attempt, have been so for 30 years, I believe I made mention of the fact in an earlier post?
So you have some understanding of my reasons for posting comment on this thread, my specialism is "designing out crime" which has kept me gratefully employed in Westminster for 10 or more years. During this time I have been fortunate enough to have undertaken many and various levels of training both practical and academic from both the Home Office and accredited learning establishments. I would like to consider myself reasonably proficient at what I do, I guess we all do to some degree, nothing pretenciuos about that I suspect?
Fundamentally, the purpose of my job is to design out crime. Wouldn't it be ridiculous of me to insinuate I am the sole contributor to reducing crime in London? Of course it would. Although I do work closely with MPS colleagues from many departments on a daily basis. Including, Counter Terrorism Command (SO20) Diplomatic Protection Group (SO7)And Royalty Protection Group. Some external partners include, CPNI, Westminster Planning Authority, planning consultants, architects and other built environment professionals.
i would submit to the fact reducing or preventing crime in Westminster is not comparable with crime reduction in the location of Wouldchuls workshop, although the principles and application of the law and legislation remains the same.

I am not aware of your own profession or skill set however, let's say you are a bricklayer with 30 years on site experience. would you consider the views of a casual observer valid because they had built a BBQ in their garden or because they had picked up a snippet on mortar mixing on the Tommy Walsh TV show.

The whole purpose of this thread, which I am ashamed to say has now and truly been hijacked, was to offer the OP some assistance on relevant and appropriate advice.

PS I am not by informing you of my job role compromising sensitive material or information. My details can be found on the Secured by Design website under, Westminster DOCO.

Good luck
David

 

[toesy]

Difficult to say what really needs to be done, CCTV - IP based system is fantastic, but a pro-thief will spot them and cover up.

I look at it like this, they broke in stole some items which will be replaced, and didn't get into your home and cause more pain and stress.

I would look at the quality of all doors/windows for your workshop even to the point of bars on windows, and steel faced reinforced door. I would suggest CCTV from the house with movement activated recording will at least alert you that someone is eyeing up your workshop.

Sorry you have had a bad experience, they are scum and we can only deter the passing thief the pro's will find a way, I am sorry to say,

 

[Boatfixer]

My workshop is in a less than salubrious area of town - the rent is so much lower there. Partly for insulation and partly for security I have built a large pair of doors inside my roller shutter, the thinking being that if they rip the roller shutters off as is the usual mode of entrance for local scrotes they will then be confronted with another obstacle to getting in. I also have a steel cabinet bolted to the floor in which portable tools are stored overnight. No doubt they will find a way of getting in to it but at least by then they will have had to do some work for their takings.....

Graham

 

[Homerjh]

CCTV is good, but IP is useless without a reliable network and for good quality is expensive. Homeplugs may work if the wiring to your house is ok.

these can send emails if there is motion and upload video/pictures to a remote location, but a hat/scarf will prevent ultimate Identification and if they know you have power, could simply force the breaker somehow to disable the mains...

if they want in they will find a way, but all depends on what you have in there, if you make a fort knox then eventually you may not want to go in due to the hassle of unlocking..

so a loud alarm system, ensure that INSIDE has sirens and multiple ones that are battery backed up. so if they enter, they will need to withstand the painful noise as well as trying to steal, as well as a loud external one. some cars have internal sirens for this purpose, makes it too painful for the occupant to remain (and earplugs will work, but then can they hear cars approaching?)

Internal strobe light? again sounds ott but with a strobe light flashing in a dark room (disable the lighting circuit if the alarm triggers?) and the siren, most offenders will not want to stay. the other issue is if they then start a rave.......

legally could the strobe light cause a fit and the owner be prosecuted?, i am sure some clear warning signs around will appease any court that you gave reasonable warning.

and then a simple system that alerts by email/text if it gets activated. my £60 ip camera does this. it is 3 years old, but handy to inform you if there is anything wrong.

I dont know what value your workshop has in terms of kit/etc but maybe a monitored and fitted alarm system could be the answer, you have mains power to the building i assume, so should be in the realms of possibility and the cost may not be that much compared to others mentioned?

 

[Danny]

Well this thread is depressing, not only for your losses Wouldchuk, but because it reminds me of the many reasons that I hate my own Country. Hate is a strong word but I really do mean it. Why is it that "we" as a nation sit back and let these idiots tell us what we can and can't do in our own homes. We barely (possibly even don't) have the right to defend ourselves any more, never mind our property.

Think about it, your walking down the street one night and your about to get mugged by some drugged up piece of scum that would be quite happy to kill just because he's bored and wanted the £5 note out of your wallet. What do you defend yourself with? Your not carrying a pistol because you've had that right stripped away a long time ago, your not carrying a half decent utility knife because you've had that right stripped away from you, your not carrying pepper spray because if you get caught with that you'll be charged with carrying a firearm! You don't punch him in the face because he really will stick that kitchen knife through your heart, so you hand over your wallet and then he sticks the knife in you anyway. Brilliant, remember kids, when seconds count the police are only minutes away!

Why are people so convinced that banning everything stops crime, it doesn't! The scum doing the crime in the first place doesn't care about the law anyway so it only stops the victims from defending themselves. And now were afraid to secure our own property in fear of being sued by the burglar? It's a joke, If your going to use that logic then you should leave your door wide open in-case the burglar hurts their arm while breaking it down.

I've had it with the UK I really have, there's no country that is perfect but this one is far from it! I'm only 26 and already just can't take it any more. You hear about so many people moving to other countries these days, often countries with nicer weather. But at this point, I'm really not fussed where I go, I just want out. I think even 3rd world countries could offer a better lifestyle and you could even help out other people at the same time.

Maybe it's just me? But what is good about the UK? Why are you proud to be British? I wish I was!

As for the original topic, Woodchuk. If I were you I would seriously consider not keeping your replacement gear in the same building for at least a few months if you can avoid it. And I would also invest in IP cams, even if you don't have the infrastructure for it already, I would seriously think about installing it. Failing that, record footage locally to a small well secured computer in the workshop. Some camera's have micro SD card slots in them for local recording but it's no use if they just take the camera.

 

[MatthewRedStars]

Yeah, mate... I'm stabbed day in day out... stab stab stab, makes life such a drag, all the stabbing! And puts quite a strain on the washing machine too.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Well this thread is depressing, not only for your losses Wouldchuk, but because it reminds me of the many reasons that I hate my own Country. Hate is a strong word but I really do mean it. Why is it that "we" as a nation sit back and let these idiots tell us what we can and can't do in our own homes. We barely (possibly even don't) have the right to defend ourselves any more, never mind our property.

Think about it, your walking down the street one night and your about to get mugged by some drugged up piece of scum that would be quite happy to kill just because he's bored and wanted the £5 note out of your wallet. What do you defend yourself with? Your not carrying a pistol because you've had that right stripped away a long time ago, your not carrying a half decent utility knife because you've had that right stripped away from you, your not carrying pepper spray because if you get caught with that you'll be charged with carrying a firearm! You don't punch him in the face because he really will stick that kitchen knife through your heart, so you hand over your wallet and then he sticks the knife in you anyway. Brilliant, remember kids, when seconds count the police are only minutes away!

Why are people so convinced that banning everything stops crime, it doesn't! The scum doing the crime in the first place doesn't care about the law anyway so it only stops the victims from defending themselves. And now were afraid to secure our own property in fear of being sued by the burglar? It's a joke, If your going to use that logic then you should leave your door wide open in-case the burglar hurts their arm while breaking it down.

I've had it with the UK I really have, there's no country that is perfect but this one is far from it! I'm only 26 and already just can't take it any more. You hear about so many people moving to other countries these days, often countries with nicer weather. But at this point, I'm really not fussed where I go, I just want out. I think even 3rd world countries could offer a better lifestyle and you could even help out other people at the same time.

Maybe it's just me? But what is good about the UK? Why are you proud to be British? I wish I was!

As for the original topic, Woodchuk. If I were you I would seriously consider not keeping your replacement gear in the same building for at least a few months if you can avoid it. And I would also invest in IP cams, even if you don't have the infrastructure for it already, I would seriously think about installing it. Failing that, record footage locally to a small well secured computer in the workshop. Some camera's have micro SD card slots in them for local recording but it's no use if they just take the camera.

Sad reading indeed, a young man such as Danny has of the UK, although I do understand why he and his generation has such a dim view of the country we live in.

Other than a brief period in our history (between the wars) we have never had a period where crime has been so low, including offences against the person. The media and the govt play a large part in how we percieve the world around us. It is of no surprise I'm sure to read the media and government have been in cahoots (spelling?) with one another for years, particularly so since the 1980's where the thirst for immediate news was first demanded by the public. This need was quickly seized upon by the two aforementioned to thier advantage with a great deal Information of no consequence for the most part forced upon us

I recall the public outcry of a child mauled by a family dog some twenty five plus ago. From that point until the legislation was changed there were daily newspaper and prime time news stories of dogs mauling postmen, neighbours, sheep, wild lfe and just about everything else that walked or crawled at the time. All of this news, as sad as it was for the victim was reported to let us believe we were about to be over run by a pack of ferral dangerous dogs. So, from that initial incident, had dog attacks ever occured? Of course they did. Did they occur with such ferocious effect, well I'll leave that for you to decide, my own view is they did. Since the change in Dangerous Dogs legislation (virtually ineffective) do we still have dog attacks? Is it reported and flashed across our screens now? not a great deal I would suggest. Therefore, is it fair to assume the media's involvement and subsequent change in legislation by the government has cured the problem? what heraldous people they are, the saviours of the nation, what would we do without the media and the government.

We need change folks, while the establishment sit cozy in their publicly funded positions yet have the audacity to question why they should pay for their own dinners a younger generation (our future) is wondering how they are going to afford their own home or ensure relative comfort in old age.

Danny, if I could say anything to you, it would be, don't let them grind you down mate. It is they who need you (for votes) not you who needs them. Keep spreading the word for change and at least make those pulling the strings work as hard as you do for their money.

Good luck

David

 

[Woodmonkey]

Yeah, mate... I'm stabbed day in day out... stab stab stab, makes life such a drag, all the stabbing! And puts quite a strain on the washing machine too.

:lol: :lol: made I laugh

 

[n0legs]

We need change folks, while the establishment sit cozy in their publicly funded positions yet have the audacity to question why they should pay for their own dinners a younger generation (our future) is wondering how they are going to afford their own home or ensure relative comfort in old age.

Danny, if I could say anything to you, it would be, don't let them grind you down mate. It is they who need you (for votes) not you who needs them. Keep spreading the word for change and at least make those pulling the strings work as hard as you do for their money.

Good luck

David

I need to second what David has written above.
A very clear observation and statement from someone who has his finger on the pulse.










To all the forum members I wish to make an apology if anyone was offended in anyway by my comments I made earlier in this topic.




To Danny,
Reinforcing what David has said above. You younger guys need to get on board with some of the issues that has blighted our nation. We can all moan, don't take that the wrong way, but we need action. This action comes about by getting your concerns and voices heard, even if it's in as little a manner as the way you vote.
Get letters sent and objections made, this is your/our country. I don't want a revolution but some issues need addressing and those we put in power can't or won't act unless we call on them to do so.
Chin up mate this is Great Britain, we've just slipped a little bit of late.

 

[beganasatree]

Nolegs you stated and I quote,(A simple fact,and lets just deal in fact,the police and the CPS have neither the time or the resources to prosecute anyone properly.I dont know what CPS stands for in your neck of the woods,but up here it is now known as the Criminal Protection Service.

Peter

 

[cammy9r]

'I'm just wondering if anyone out there has experience of a good alarm system '
That's all the OP asked.
I'm not in a remote location. I just use a home alarm system in my workshop with an internal siren. However when setting up and testing I wore earplugs to not deafen me. At this point I realised it was pointless, almost, as the intruders could also have these. I used to be a car security installer and it was mostly about deterring. We used to install Toad Smoke. It was a smoke machine under the dash or seat and filled a car in 20-30 seconds with thick smoke. Made it hard to nick stereos and the car. so maybe the smoke idea is the best.
I would second the roof access. my work workshop got done by kicking through the roof sheets, slate, sarking and pouring themselves through a hole I could barely get my head though.

 

[lurker]

Another one who agrees with Bluekingfisher

Danny: where are you going to go?
At your age I doubt you have much first hand experience of other countries, but believe me everywhere else is much worse. Possible exceptions being Aust & NZ
And stop reading the Daily Mail :lol:

 

[david123]

Wouldchuck
Lots of chat about the law but what you need is practical advice.
Years ago when I owned a security company, visiting a trade show I came across an electronic dog alarm and bought a few to sell to our customers. It was so effective that it fooled out postman into thinking we had an Alsatian in the house and he stopped sticking his fingers through the letterbox. I still have it and it now lives in my workshop. I think they have stopped making them now, but there must be something similar on the market. The one I have is called mans best friend and has a volume and sensitivity controlls. It barks randomly like a real dog and has fooled everybody that has heard it.
I am sure nobody will take you to court because you scared the bejeebers out of them

Just a thought and another layer of security to consider.

Hope you get it sorted, horrible thing to happen. Good luck mate

 

[Wouldchuk]

Well this post has taken a rather bizarre turn! I was only after some practical tips – thanks to those for their advice in this regard. it's now resurfaced with some unexpected comments which I hope I've not caused.

To be quite honest, yes it’s a bit of a blow to see thousands of pounds of kit missing and buildings damaged, but I think I’ll leave the violence out of it. A civil servant I am, a professional boxer/self-defence/policeman/lawyer I aint!! Life is short as it is, without risking getting into a conflab with some criminals who are probably more used to confrontations than I am! Or the risk of litigation through over the top and dangerous measures like wiring doorhandles to the mains – realistically, it’d be me or the missus that forgets and gets a new perm!

In the end, I went with the usual combination of a balanced approach to physical security measures including multiple locks, new sliding steel bars across door frames, alarm system with ‘MasterBlaster’ inside and multiple bells and siren outside. I’ve spoken to the neighbours in the area about the alarm and given them my number should it go off and asked them to call the police if necessary. Then it’s a consideration as to how much damage will be caused in the process – and offsetting that by a solid insurance policy. I’d rather the chainsaw gets stolen than they bring the wall down.