should i buy a radial arm saw?

[russ_1380]

Evening all.

I am looking at a tool for accurate crosscuts.

Kapex is too expensive and from my other posts, most agreed that mitre saws aren't accurate enough for cabinet making.

I've notice the old Dewalt style radial arm saws go fairly cheap on ebay.

How do people rate these? Basically I want as accurate as I can get, 90 and 45 degree cuts. I know they are a pain to set up, but once set are they really as bad as people make out?

A decent table saw is out of budget for me, plus space is a bit of an issue.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks guys

Russ

 

[rileytoolworks]

Hello mate. I use a Dewalt 712 SCMS. It was accurate out of the box, and has stayed that way since. Fitted with a decent blade, it'll give excellent cuts.
It doesn't have a double bevel cutting facility which, in my opinion, is it's only drawback, but that's easily overcome.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Adam.

 

[Night Train]

I have a Rexon SCM12A 110v SCMS which was absolutley accurate with a bit of setting up from new.
Well it was until I broke it.
It is now roughly accurate after a bit of work with a large lever to straighten it a little. :lol:

I am still looking for a suitable replacement.

 

[RogerS]

I don't think that it's necessarily a question of 'type' of machine. More a question of quality and accuracy of manufacture. Some SCMS have very accurate slides with little slop in them and an adjustable base to get 90 degrees bang on. A radial arm saw is just an SCMS upside down and same rules of accuracy/quality apply.

Guess it will also depend on the size of stock that you're working with. Within reason, if I want a cross-cut to be bang on then I will trim it in the mitre trimmer. Bang on 90 degree cuts in all directions every time.

 

[Anonymous]

A good compound sliding mitre saw form Dewalt or any other decent brand (circa £400) will be very accurate indeed. My dewalt is bang on for every setting.

Cheaper sliding mitre saws tend to be OK, but then I use a shooting board anyway!

 

[MikeG.]

I have both, and they each have their strengths and weaknesses.

My 12" DeWalt SCMS is tremendously accurate. I can happily cut mitres in oak on it which need no cleaning up whatsoever.......just add glue! However, its depth stop setting is poor, which means that using it for housing out cross-grain, such as for cutting tenons, is simply not on.

The RAS is brilliant for repetitive cuts to length, being set on a long bench. I can set a stop in seconds. Furthermore, its height adjustment is spot-on, so cutting tenons is incredibly accurate (set a stop to cut the shoulders each side, so only one mark required for the first one, then the rest are identical.......followed by a series of cross cuts to remove the waste).

A downside of the RAS is the length of time it takes to set it all up accurately.........and then this is undone if it ever catches into a piece of wood and "stalls" itself. This is always pilot error.

Get the biggest, sturdiest RAS you can find...........you'll not regret it.

Mike

 

[OPJ]

Mike's got it pretty much spot on with his comments about radial arm saws. However, I consider these to be more dangerous than a sliding compound mitre saw. If you wood does 'bite' or catches a knot, it will come racing towards you and remove any stray fingers in the process! :shock: If your sliding mitre saw goes 'bang' (I've had this happen once - it is terrifying! :?), the head naturally retracts vertically and the guard swings back down, as you let go. Therefore, the spinning blade is enclosed and cannot harm you.

DeWalt claim their own 712 model to be the most accurate they have made (to within 0.1°, I believe). I'm actually considering downgrading from my big 12" Bosch (which I don't find to be that accurate) to this one. Tony has a background in engineering, I belive, so, when he says something is "accurate", you'd darn well better believe it!! :wink:

I've used one of the 718's in a previous job and it did seem to be spot on every time. That's too big for what I need (and can afford right now), really.

Whichever you decide to go for, it's going to take up a fair amount of space in your workshop. If you're concerned about the rails sticking out the back of a SCMS and can't afford the Kapex, it's worth noting that Hitachi also do a saw with rails that run alongside the head... Trouble is, I don't know anyone who's used one and I've never read a review on it. So, I can't possibly comment on the accuracy compared to one of the DeWalt machines.

EDIT - One thing I forgot to mention is the possibility of fitting a "dado" or trenching head to a radial arm saw. If you'll be using this saw commercially then, it's worth taking a look through the HSE website to see what regs (braking is one) would apply in this situation. If not though, I'd still recommend you do your reading first as they can be potentially dangerous if you've never used one before... Apologies to the rest of the forum; I'm suppost to whisper the D-word, aren't I?

 

[mpooley]

what Mike and OPJ said

I have both and much prefer the RAS - it can be a pain sometimes but i wouldnt be without it.

Mike

 

[dexter]

Hi Russ,
I`ve got the DW720 RAS and consider it a great piece of kit. You say that space is an issue, if that`s the case then you may struggle with the RAS as the are quite a large machine. That being said, the head assembly can be turned through 90degrees and the saw then used to rip material, (i`ve never had the need or inclination to do that though!).

Dex

 

[MikeG.]

I am not averse to a little bending of the rules, and will carefully try things that might be considered dangerous by some..........

...........but even I will never again try ripping with a turned RAS. Forget it!

For a start, the blade is trying to pick the work up, so you are having to hold it down as you feed it in. Secondly, all of the sawdust is thrown straight at your face, and there is nothing you can do about it. Any offcuts or splinters are hurled at you at great pace.

Finally, ripping like this seems to throw all of the settings out of square, so setting up again for cross-cutting takes ages.

I never call for things to be banned........but this gets pretty close!!

Mike

 

[Chippyjoe]

Cannot comment on a RAS as I do not own one,but my Makita slider is very accurate and the cuts are very clean.


Mike said,

I never call for things to be banned........but this gets pretty close!

Pinky came close as well :lol:

Mark.

 

[FatFreddysCat]

My feeling about sliding compound mitre saws is that the larger the blade the less accurate they are. All the 12in machines I've used seem to "wind up" in some way. I'm not sure whether this is because the blade flexes or because the frame moves. Perhaps it's a combination of both. The old deWalt DW608s we had when they first came out were really bad in that respect - the DW618 is an improvement but not much. It is most noticeable when you are trying to make a trim cut of say a couple of millimeters where the blade is only cutting on one side. 10in saws seem to be less affected by this phenomenon and so seem to cut more accurately. One of the subs we had working here last year had the DW712 mentioned in the thread and I have to agree that it's a nice bit of kit although I've yet to use one for anything larger than a 4 x 1 flat moulding. One of the nicest sliding saws I've used so far on a job is owned by my mate Mick. It's the Elektra-Beckum 10in saw (KGS303?) which seems to be very rigid and very quiet. Excellent blade, too.

I consider these (radial arm saws) to be more dangerous than a sliding compound mitre saw. If you wood does 'bite' or catches a knot, it will come racing towards you and remove any stray fingers in the process!

Maybe you should learn how to use one properly, then :wink: :lol: You only risk chopping fingers off is you place them in the cut line - which you shouldn't do on either type of saw. A "proper" radial arm saw like a Stromab, Wadkin or one of the "industrial" deWalts normally won't climb the work. Maybe the DIY models are more prone to this because they are so light and can flex, but one way to help tame this is to use a negative rake blade. The biggest downside to the radial arm saw is the amount of space they take up when you've built a 6 metre long worktable around one.

it's worth noting that Hitachi also do a saw with rails that run alongside the head... Trouble is, I don't know anyone who's used one and I've never read a review on it.

C12LSH or something? We had one on loan from the local Hitachi dealer early last year, the version with a digital display. The double slide mechanism seemed to have slop in it and the digital read-out wasn't accurate enough over using the scales (I think it reads out in 1/2 degree increments), so it was no good for tuning cuts. It also seemed to flex a bit on large cornice mouldings so was really no better than a DW618, probably worse.

 

[RogerS]

Good points, FFC, but how often are spot-on 90 degree cuts needed on something that needs the capacity of a 12" blade. Perhaps I should add...for the majority of us..

Reading through the replies on the thread (my own included) it does seem to me that all the responses are equally as valid but only in the context of the use made of them by the poster and whether or not they use the saw day in/day out or on a more casual basis. I really wish that we had some way of applying some sort of 'criteria' to posts that keep them in context.

 

[JonnyD]

My advice would be to save up for a decent table saw with a sliding table which will be much more versatile than a cheap radial arm saw.

I have a dewalt 10inch SCMS which is acurate enough for most purposes

Jon

 

[jhwbigley]

I have a Dewalt 1751, its a useful saw

I find its great, once set up, for all my cross cutting. I can run a board down in width on the table saw, then to length on the RAS without having to disturb any settings. I don't have a SCMS so i cant compare. If you use a RAS properly (with a negative rake blade) you shouldn't find climbing over the cut a problem in day to day cutting. Its only when you try to cut 3" thick lumps on a small saw like mine you might have a bit of fun :lol: Also dust extraction is a definite on this machine as its bloody messy without :shock:

John-Henry

 

[FatFreddysCat]

but how often are spot-on 90 degree cuts needed on something that needs the capacity of a 12" blade. Perhaps I should add...for the majority of us..

It all depends on whether or not you intend to fill every mitre joint with GripFill, I suppose. :lol: