Should I buy a £90 pillar drill?

[samthedog]

The reason you should get a drill that hs a low speed (lower than 650 rpm) is to avoid burning up your drill bits. 650 is ok on wood but will murder bits on steel, even with lubrication.

The point I made about T slots refers to the slots seen in the table. These are cut-outs where a T nut can be slid into these slots, allowing it to slide along the slot but locking it in when upwards pressure is applied to the clamp. These slots allow you to fix vices and cvarious clamping set-ups onto the table. You can see these slots in a post I did about a drill refurb:

http://wanderingaxeman.blogspot.no/2012/07/ixion-bst-13-refurb.html

My advice is to buy used. Modern tools don't match the quality and longevity of old school. Tools. Remember with these old tools you pay for bearing quality, mass and build quality. Modern tools may often be cheaper but this comes at a cost to quality and therefore longevity.

Paul.

 

[RogerP]

Just make sure that whatever you choose, you get it with a table that has T slots. This opens the options for many different types of workholding.

Er could you explain what to look for and what you can do with them please
Are they for attaching hold-down clamps and small vices etc?

Get or make something like this

 

[misterfish]

Of those you list I would steer clear of those with chipped pulleys

I'm not sure what that means, did some of them say that had chipped pulleys?
be.

I can believe that. The Ajax doesn't look suitable, the Progress is probably massive, my favourite of those is the meddings.

The Ajax states in its description 'One of these is chipped and needs repair. The switch could also do with attention.'

As it mentions using a belt to change speed I assumed that the 'chipped' component is a pulley - if it was just the drive belt I would expect it to say that the belt needs changing. The thing is that a belt would be cheap but a stepped pulley would be more of a problem.

You seem to have found a set of 240v single phase machines which will make life easier as you can just plug them in and go. I looked around for a number of weeks and then when a mini-glut of drills were offered in my area I bought my Fobco for £50.

Misterfish

 

[samthedog]

Ask for a picture of the chipped pully. If the chip isn't big then you can sand around the edges of the chip and it will not have much of an effect on the life of the belt. Pulleys don't act like gears and the belt will just conform to any change in shape due to the chip.

In all honesty though, hold off and wait for a good deal on a vintage drill that has all the features you want. These drills come along on a reasonably regular basis since metal and wood working is not as common as it once was.

Paul.

 

[Triggaaar]

Wow, loads of help on a Friday morning, thanks all.

The reason you should get a drill that hs a low speed (lower than 650 rpm) is to avoid burning up your drill bits. 650 is ok on wood but will murder bits on steel, even with lubrication.

I wouldn't have chosen such a fast speed, that's just what's available on the cheaper new machines.

The point I made about T slots refers to the slots seen in the table. These are cut-outs where a T nut can be slid into these slots, allowing it to slide along the slot but locking it in when upwards pressure is applied to the clamp. These slots allow you to fix vices and cvarious clamping set-ups onto the table. You can see these slots in a post I did about a drill refurb:

Useful drill refurb thread, I'll have a good look at that if I buy second hand. So do you mean T slots in the machine's own table, and do you use those to fit an after market drill table? I see axminster do a clamp for one of their drill tables, but I can't see any T nuts or clamps to fit the standard machine's tables.

Remember with these old tools you pay for bearing quality, mass and build quality.

But how do you know the bearing quality of a machine on ebay?

Get or make something like this

Thanks, I'd seen others on here have bought/made a version of that. I need a lesson in getting the most out of a pillar drill.

The Ajax states in its description 'One of these is chipped and needs repair. The switch could also do with attention.'

Ah I see, thanks. Just looking at that Ajax I was confused - there doesn't seem to be much clearance between the chuck and the base, so maybe it's for small jobs with metal, or I'm missing something (not unlikely).

In all honesty though, hold off and wait for a good deal on a vintage drill that has all the features you want.

I don't need to rush, the problem is I don't know what I'm looking at (homer) I'd assume that any of these would be fine:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330775325513? ... 1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130740223088? ... 1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110932340075? ... 1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170891485103? ... 1423.l2649

What do you think of those 4, how much work they could need and how much they're each worth?

 

[samthedog]

The drill I like of the lot is the Meddings. It's heavy and a switch is not hard to replace and with a bit of oiling, it will last you a life time. An advantage of the belt run drills is that they are quiet. It's not massive so it will not take up too much room on the work bench but just be aware that parts won't be available. That said though, it's not much cash so it's worth the risk.

Paul.

 

[Triggaaar]

The drill I like of the lot is the Meddings. It's heavy and a switch is not hard to replace and with a bit of oiling, it will last you a life time. An advantage of the belt run drills is that they are quiet. It's not massive so it will not take up too much room on the work bench but just be aware that parts won't be available. That said though, it's not much cash so it's worth the risk.

Thanks. You say it's not much cash, but it's an auction, so who knows how much. How much do you think it's worth?

If winning one of these things, I guess the only thing to do is test them when picking up to check they're ok. What should we look out for, a non wobbly chuck when extended (sorry for getting technical), and no horrible noises when running - anything else?

 

[Richard S]

Just looking at the ebay links posted by Trigaar, the Powercraft drill is the house brand of either Alde or Lidl so £150BIN is taking the michael somewhat. This would have been about £40 new. keep looking.

 

[Triggaaar]

Just looking at the ebay links posted by Trigaar, the Powercraft drill is the house brand of either Alde or Lidl so £150BIN is taking the michael somewhat. This would have been about £40 new. keep looking.

:lol: thanks for the heads up. It wasn't a brand recommended on here, so I was ignoring it until I heard otherwise.

I've checked previous bay sales and there have been some Meddings drills in good condition (better than the one in my link) going for £110-£135.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've a Meddings that I bought locally for £120 - it has a plate on it marked "bush radio ltd", which dates it to 1961 at the latest. Best buy ever!

 

[samthedog]

The drill I like of the lot is the Meddings. It's heavy and a switch is not hard to replace and with a bit of oiling, it will last you a life time. An advantage of the belt run drills is that they are quiet. It's not massive so it will not take up too much room on the work bench but just be aware that parts won't be available. That said though, it's not much cash so it's worth the risk.

Thanks. You say it's not much cash, but it's an auction, so who knows how much. How much do you think it's worth?

If winning one of these things, I guess the only thing to do is test them when picking up to check they're ok. What should we look out for, a non wobbly chuck when extended (sorry for getting technical), and no horrible noises when running - anything else?

Without a dial test indicator, it's hard to check the run-out of the drill. Noisy bearings are probably the thing to watch for but often this is as easily fixed as applying oil. When pulling the leaver down just ensure that the rack (gears that extend the drill down) are not chipped or broken. This is rarely the case but can happen if the table is being adjusted up and suddenly hits the chuck.

Be aware that on the drill I said I liked (the Meddings), the guy who owned it previously drilled into the table. If you look closely you will see an arc of drill hole on the table. This is easily fixed with brazing (brazing rod and small gas torch to fill this in, then file flat).

This link gives you a good example of how these repairs can be done and what the final result can look like:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...-in-a-drill-press-table-using-JB-Weld?p=12595

Just be selective is my biggest tip. I fix machines as a hobby and nearly every tool I own (drill, lathe, milling machine etc...) needed to be repaired before it was put into service. These repairs are not hard but they often mean you will spend some time fixing the machine instead of using it. If your not afraid of getting your hands dirty and spending some time on the machine, you can get quite a machine shop set-up for little money.

Paul

 

[RogerP]

Rebuilding old machinery is I'm sure very satisfying and a cheap way to get quality kit - so long as the hours spent are not taken into the calculation. Fine if it's a hobby or done in genuinely spare time BUT if it's done at the expense of chargeable work then can soon become an expensive machine. Even a modest rebuild will surely take several days - how much do you charge for a day's work?

 

[Triggaaar]

Noisy bearings are probably the thing to watch for but often this is as easily fixed as applying oil. When pulling the leaver down just ensure that the rack (gears that extend the drill down) are not chipped or broken.

Thanks.

Be aware that on the drill I said I liked (the Meddings), the guy who owned it previously drilled into the table. If you look closely you will see an arc of drill hole on the table. This is easily fixed with brazing (brazing rod and small gas torch to fill this in, then file flat).

I had seen that damage, and while it would be better if it wasn't damaged, does it really matter? I assume it's superficial and won't affect the use of the drill.

These repairs are not hard but they often mean you will spend some time fixing the machine instead of using it. If your not afraid of getting your hands dirty and spending some time on the machine, you can get quite a machine shop set-up for little money.

Although I'd be ok spending a small amount of time on the machine, I have no knowledge of these things so I really should limit it to cleaning it up etc.

 

[samthedog]

Even a modest rebuild will surely take several days - how much do you charge for a day's work?

That's the most important question. If this is for a hobby then repairing or rebuilding is ok. If you need this for chargeable work or it cuts into your work time, then buy new. I repair machines as a hobby but I still factor in the hours I use and the cost of materials. All my machines if sold will pay for themselves and the hours spent repairing them. For example, my Ixion drill took about 4 - 5 hours to clean, paint and change the cables. For the 100£ it cost me, plus assuming my time is charged at 40£ an hour (hobby-time rates), this means it cost me 300£ in total (I had the paint and cables left over from other jobs). In Norway I could re-sell this for around the total price quite easily.

Trigaaar; The table damage won't change the performance of the drill. I am a bit picky and try to bring my machines to as close to original condition as possible. If you don't have the ability or desire to fix the table, then that just leaves the switch as the obvious repair. I would pay up to 40 - 50 quid for that kind of drill since a switch really costs peanuts.

Paul.

* I'll just add that I am used to Norwegian prices so spending 50£ on a fixer-upper does not scare me. since everything is relative you need to look at your budget and see if it's feasable. Don't be scared off by newer drills like Warco etc... They are often made in Taiwan which despite popular opinion, are renowned for producing reasonable quality machines.

 

[Triggaaar]

If you don't have the ability or desire to fix the table, then that just leaves the switch as the obvious repair. I would pay up to 40 - 50 quid for that kind of drill since a switch really costs peanuts.

I'd be happy to buy a switch and fit it with advice from here.

Don't be scared off by newer drills like Warco etc...

I've just googled those - expensive. Even a 250W with 60mm of chuck travel is over £200. I assume I'd be better with an old machine?

 

[samthedog]

The Warco drills turn up secondhand every now and again. I have seen them on ebay occasionally. How urgently do you need the drill?

 

[Triggaaar]

The Warco drills turn up secondhand every now and again. I have seen them on ebay occasionally. How urgently do you need the drill?

Oops, I miss-understood your post. You didn't say new, you said newer. It's not urgent, I have a job that needs doing now, but I can get a £12 drill guide to do that.

The old Sealey is finishing on the bay in halfd an hour, that looks like a fair drill.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170891485103? ... 1423.l2649

 

[Triggaaar]

What do you think of this:
http://www.dugard.com/used_machine_mode ... delID=1620

It's 3 phase - I don't even know what that means, but reading on here everyone changes them to single phase. - Ok, googling tells me it's a different service provided by your electricity company, whereas households have single phase electricity, so I have to change it. I take it that's a piece of cake, I just need to find a motor and switch.

 

[samthedog]

Does it matter where it is located or do you need it close to where you live? I think that for 85£ you could get something that needs no work and is already single phase.

The only reason I say this is because most people wouldn't want the hassle of changing 3 phase to single and vice-wersa for just 1 machine. I have 3 different machines that run on 3 phase so it was worth it for me, for you it probably won't be.

Paul.

 

[Triggaaar]

Does it matter where it is located or do you need it close to where you live?

Well I have to factor in the cost of getting it (petrol), so I assume I'd get the best value drill if I'm not traveling too far.

I think that for 85£ you could get something that needs no work and is already single phase.

That would be handy. Reading other threads on here I saw quite a few people make the change, so I assumed it was the common thing to do, but I'd rather not have to. The Meddings I've linked to is single phase, but without a switch. I don't expect that to be too expensive, but it doesn't look in as good condition as many others, and it's a bit weird having no cover over the belt.

The only reason I say this is because most people wouldn't want the hassle of changing 3 phase to single and vice-wersa for just 1 machine. I have 3 different machines that run on 3 phase so it was worth it for me, for you it probably won't be.

Understood, thank you very much for the advice.