Shed/Garden store WIP - Comp entry

[MikeG.]

Pity!

I was hoping we might see sprockets on this job...........but expected exposed rafter feet at the least. Boxed eaves wont really set this oak beam off as nicely as something a bit more traditional.

Go on Colin!! Stop your rafters on the top of the beam, and sit oak sprockets on that. You'll not regret it!

Mike

 

[MickCheese]

What are sprockets?

I am guessing it has something to do with exposing the rafter ends?

Mick

 

[MikeG.]

Mick,

this is a sprocket:

Not only do you get the traditional exposed rafter feet, but you also get that beautiful "kick" to the lower part of the roof......another thing that makes old buildings look attractive without you really knowing why.

Come on Colin, you know that this is what you really want to do!!!

Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

So how do they work Mike?

Is it just a tapered length that is fixed along the lower part of the rafter? Then the tile battens fixed to the sprocket?

 

[MikeG.]

Exactly that, Mark. Think of them as normal exposed rafter feet.

You also have to consider what you will see if you look up into the eaves. It isn't nice to see Tyvek, or similar, so there are normally a few boards laid along the tops of the sprockets so that you see timber when you look up, but if you were thatching it can be quite nice to see the underside of thatch. Same with plain tiles.

Mike

 

[CWatters]

Come on Colin, you know that this is what you really want to do!!!
Mike

Aghhh it's torture knowing it could look much better.

The drawing was mainly to work out how much of the beam would be exposed with a certain thickness of wall plate and depth of gutter. I hadn't really decided if the rafters were going to be exposed or boxed...but I totally hadn't considered sprockets at all. We have a mix of boxed and exposed (fascia board only) on our house so none of the options would look out of place. Decisions! Decisions!

My wife wants to catch the rainwater for her vegtables and I was planning on using copper guttering to match the house. Do you think it would it look odd if I had sprockets on the front but a plain pitch with exposed rafter ends and guttering on the back?

The other thing I'm worried about is the lawn. It's clay soil and discharging the water from the front onto that might not be a good idea..but then again there is a gentle slope so it wouldn't lay in puddles.

Then there is the roof pitch which is currently about 35 degrees - the minimium for plain clay tiles. It's an exposed location with the wind blowing on the front left corner. I'll have to work out what the pitch of the front would be reduced to if there were sockets. I guess I could put a few layers of waterproof membrane under the front edge incase water blew under the tiles.

And lastly the finish. I'm trying to keep the oak looking new/honey colour by using Danish oil. Can I face having to paint the sockets every year as well as all the other oak we have to do on the house The planners want me to stain the oak cladding a dark colour so might not be able to let it all silver nicely.

I'll have a think.

 

[MikeG.]

Colin,

Firstly, you can still have gutters with sprockets. You just use the brackets that fix to the side of rafters......they look great.

Secondly, I wouldn't worry about the pitch reducing for the last half dozen courses of tiles.......If you wer really worried you could tighten up the coursing by an inch or so, but this is all overhang anyway.

You sprockets would be entirely sheltered, and are out of the sun. They probably wouldn't even need an oil finish. Mine have been up for 7 or 8 years, no finish whatsoever, and are still the same colour as when they went up.

The sprockets, of course, would expose more of your beam to view without the need for a further plate.

I wouldn't hesitate...........sprockets at the front, orthodox exposed feet to the rear. Copper gutters to both will look magic!

Mike

PS Sprockets are traditionally quite broad. I would say at least 3 inches in your case, but even 4........and the shape I drew is very standard. On a posh job you wouold chamfer the lower edges.

If I ever see a boxed eave on this building..........you're not far away from me.........I might have to visit one dark night and re-arrange the offending detail!

 

[GreenBoy]

Mine have been up for 7 or 8 years, no finish whatsoever, and are still the same colour as when they went up.

How about a picture mike?

 

[Escudo]

Great progress Colin. Looking very good. Just a couple of questions;

How thick did you make your concrete base? and did you put any steel in it? Are the row of bricks round the base just sitting on top of the base?

How high is the timber frame work and what height will the building be when completed?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

Cheers, Tony.

 

[CWatters]

Great progress Colin. Looking very good. Just a couple of questions;

How thick did you make your concrete base? .

I went for around 150mm compacted hardcore with 150mm concrete containing fibre reinforcement. No steel but perhaps should have put some in.

Are the row of bricks round the base just sitting on top of the base?.

Mortared onto the base with a DPC on top. Two courses or more are normally recommendsd but my slab is slightly above ground level so I figure I'll get away with it.

I inserted 9 stainless steel "bolts" made from threaded rod, washers and nuts into the wet concrete so the walls are bolted down to the slab. Anyone doing similar MUST put something over the ends of the exposed bolts ... the consequences of tripping over and falling onto them doesn't bare thinking about.

How high is the timber frame work and what height will the building be when completed? .

The wall plate is around 6'8" and the ridge around 13'. One of the tricky things to get right has been the height of the eaves. I had hoped that the building could be used for a horse by some future owner but the planners had me reduce the height of the eaves so they are probably too low for anything but a small breed. I think lowering the eaves was probably the right thing to do as the ground rises up slightly in that area so it looks taller than it is.

If you want a lower height buiding put the doors on the gable ends then the eaves can be lower.

 

[CWatters]

After much thought I decided to go for exposed rafter ends rather than sprockets. Just decided I had enough work to do! I've still got two windows and two doors to make this summer and no idea how I'm going to do those yet. I’ve never made anything like that before either.

Been very hot here the last few days but have pegged the oak beams and have the roof well underway. Quite pleased with progress considering I'm working on my own.

A wall plate was added to the top of the oak beam. The beam has a curve to it in two directions so the wall plate was cut to match and provide a level and straight surface for the rafters to sit on. This avoided the need to cut each rafter to suit it’s station.

The ridge beam was positioned using temporary props fixed to the gable ends with timberdrive screws and some string used to align it parallel with the eaves.

 

[Escudo]

Thanks Colin, very formative.

Keep up the good work. Cheers, Tony.

 

[EddieJ]

Colin, just a quick suggestion for you. You mention that you are on an exposed site, so with this in mind, it may be prudent to give the roof an over hang on the gable ends of say 150mm. The only problem as I see to do this, is that you have cut the rear eaves plate flush with the side walls. The front is fine, as you have the oak extending past, but I'm not sure how you could easily achieve it with the rear.
I'm sure that you have it well under control, but don't forget to add bracing of some sort to the front posts, or failing that, horizontally across from the upper side of your front beam and attached to one that extends forward from the main frame. Both will add stability and strength to the structure.

As an aside, I really love the architecture of your house, and would love to sometime see some photos of the brickwork on the window detail. It looks as though alot of thought went into the design

Finally, if you need a photo of to eplain what I meant about the gable overhang just say.

 

[CWatters]

Colin, just a quick suggestion for you. You mention that you are on an exposed site, so with this in mind, it may be prudent to give the roof an over hang on the gable ends of say 150mm.

Yes I'm planing to do something like that. I've been waiting for the tiles to arrive so I can lay out a row of tiles and ridge tiles to work out the best size for the overhang.

The only problem as I see to do this, is that you have cut the rear eaves plate flush with the side walls. The front is fine, as you have the oak extending past, but I'm not sure how you could easily achieve it with the rear.

I'm hoping that it will be sufficient to mount the fascia rafter onto the gable rafter with spacer blocks including one at the rear. I thought about building a conventional gable ladder but decided the overhang wasn't going to be big enough to warrant that. Was planning on something like..

Gable rafter
60mm blocks
44-47mm fascia rafter
50-60 mm tile overhang with slate undercloak
Total overhang around 150mm

Could probably increase that a bit.

I'm sure that you have it well under control, but don't forget to add bracing of some sort to the front posts, or failing that, horizontally across from the upper side of your front beam and attached to one that extends forward from the main frame. Both will add stability and strength to the structure.

Yes bracing underway. I thought a lot about adding wind braces to the front and they were in my original Google sketchup model .. but that would mean the large door has to open inwards wasting a lot of space. Since last photo I've added the 4 diagonals to the roof under the rafters. I'm also extending the front wall upwards to a purlin. There will also be some diagonals on the under side of the overhang and possibly a WBP ply ceiling there as well. I daren't let it blow down as the prevailing wind would mean a ton of tiles land on my wifes vegtables.

As an aside, I really love the architecture of your house, and would love to sometime see some photos of the brickwork on the window detail. It looks as though alot of thought went into the design

Thanks. We had an architect design it. We lived in Belgium for 7 years and saw a lot of good brickwork over there. Decided we wanted some on our own place. Our architect did a great job but it went quite a bit over budget. Will try and post some photos.

 

[outcycling]

Hey Colin, great thread, some usefull stuff for my impending workshop

I notice you pinned the oak together with dowels. Presuming they are oak pins, where did you get them ? Did you order them with the oak or make them yourself ?

I think I am going to have planning issues with the workshop height as well as wanted to keep with clay tiles. Got the planning officer around tomorrow to talk through the house changes so will sound him out on the garage/workshop roof.

Russ

 

[CWatters]

Gosh has it really that long since I visited my own thread? Been away on holiday but no excuse.

outcycling - yes I made them. Not hard. I had some 1" square offcuts from another project. Just kept planing the corners off until they were more or less round. The "towel" them with sand paper. Not the traditional way to make them but I don't have a spokeshave and a shaving horse. Helps if you start with long bits of wood so you have enough hold on to. Cut them to length after bashing them in.

 

[CWatters]

Weather has been a right pain over the summer. No sooner was I up the ladder with a big sheet of ply wood but the wind blew and the rain came down. Very dissapointed at slow progress. Since last update the roof structure hae been completed (diagonal braces added) and the rest of the ply cladding done. The outside was then battened with 2" x 1" treated battens and covered with a breathable membrane. Currently I'm adding another layer of battens for the weather boarding. These are being attached with 100mm Turbo Ultra Stainless steel screws right through into the stud work. They are more expensive than coated steel but I'm finding the bigger heads a lot easier to drive in than coated steel screws. I reckon I'll have used over 2000 screws and nails but the time I'm finished.

First photo shows view up through "loft" ladder opening showing diagonal roof braces screwed to underside of rafters..