Sharpening tools

[George Foweraker]

Hi All

Last night I had three members of our Burnham on Sea woodturning club around as they were all having problems sharpening their tools.

When I saw the state of their tools I was amazed just how bad they where.

It took three hours to profile and sharpen their tools, it is no wonder they have problems with their turning.

The thing that surprised me most that one of the tools a 3/8" bowl gouge was brand new and strait from the manufacturer.

The grind on this tool was very much like you would expect on a spindle roughing gouge strait across.I have just had a word with the supplier who said this is what is called a traditional grind and that it is up to the turner to create his own grind.I think this is a bit of a cop out and I am waiting to see what the manufacturer 's response is.

I have been turning now for seven years and have never seen anybody that knows anything about tool profiles use anything other than a fingernail grind or long grind on a bowl gouge.

I think this highlights a real problem with novice turners that they are not getting the absolute basics right as for instance sharpening.If you are not sure that your tools are profiled and sharpened properly either go and see a pro turner and have a bit of tuition or seek out someone from your club who turns out very high quality work and ask him or her to check out you tools.

Don't assume that because somebody has been doing it a long time that they know what they are doing because they might just have just been doing it badly for a long time.But the chances are that if someone is turning out consistently good work they will know what they are talking about.

Regards George

 

[jumps]

without getting into the trad v fingernail I would just highlight that as nearly every manufacturer produces most of their gouge range in both profiles (and more in some cases) - so I'm not sure where the 'cop out' element comes in.

are you suggesting that they shouldn't produce a traditional grind 3/8ths bowl gouge?

 

[Wood spoiler]

Very useful comments.

I continue to experiment on my tools for differing grinds and it is difficult to get right. I use Oneway's system but within that I remain unsure at times. I can get consistent grinds but are they right? or optimum? It's the thing I keep looking at when I go to Shows, the tools of the Pro's.

This here forum is "my club" so your comments and obsevations are appreciated

 

[George Foweraker]

Hello Colin.

You are absolutly right.
What I am trying to do is get turners that are new to turning to seek advice as in my opinion badly sharpened or profiled tools can hamper their progress.

Regards George

 

[tekno.mage]

George - you are quite right when you say that badly profiled tools can seriously hamper the novice. When I first started turning I was given a lathe and a bucket of neglected turning tools and really didn't know what I was doing!

Aside from the roughing gouge (which is pretty easy to sharpen, even if all you have available is a geriatric grindwheel with a horrible old hard wheel on it) it wasn't until I got some advise and a better sharpening system (and jined my local woodturning club) that I was able to progress very far. My attempts (and my partners attempts - he being better at grinding than me) to put any kind of sensible grind (aside from straight across) on a spindle or bowl gouge freehand were pathetic to say the least.

However, having said that, I did buy a new bowl gouge (as the bucket of neglected tools did not contain one and I'd read enough to know that the roughing gouge was not good to use on bowls). This new gouge came ground straight across and was not sharp. I sharpened it straight across, but with the corners rounded off, and actually managed to make a several bowls with it like that. I've still got that gouge, and it still has a similar grind on it, as I sometimes use it instead of a roughing gouge on hard/difficult wood. I now have several other bowl gouges - all ground to a fingernail profile using a jig - and it's these that get used to make bowls.

It would be nice if all turning tool manufacturers provide their tools ready sharpened and usuable straight out the packet - some do, and I must admit that I now tend to buy from these manufacturers and advise novice members of the local turning club to do the same if their funds allow. Alternatively, to buy tools second-hand from other members - and ask for them to be correctly profiled & sharpened on the club sharpening system before buying them!

 

[George Foweraker]

Very sound advice.

Regards George

 

[loz]

Perhaps time in the manufacturing process is why they are not sharpened ?

They have to be resharpened soon after the first cuts anyhow !

 

[Wood spoiler]

I was thinking on this all afternoon - I really need to get a life :lol:

How about posting some pics of the various tools and grinds you use and where / if perceived different to the norm how you are using them in what situation. I genuinely feel that this is something too often taken "as read" but in truth often overlooked.

I remain self taught and I would find the "basics" helpful. If I have it right it is nice to have it reaffirmed. If i'm not quite right it would be helpful to see where I'm going wrong.

 

[Melinda_dd]

I was thinking on this all afternoon - I really need to get a life :lol:

How about posting some pics of the various tools and grinds you use and where / if perceived different to the norm how you are using them in what situation. I genuinely feel that this is something too often taken "as read" but in truth often overlooked.

I remain self taught and I would find the "basics" helpful. If I have it right it is nice to have it reaffirmed. If i'm not quite right it would be helpful to see where I'm going wrong.

I came on the forum tonight specifically to suggest this!!! I am mainly self taught, and only found out what a bowl gauge was from this forum! I have ground my new one to around 55degrees (as says in Keith rowley's book) But I'm not sure of this straight across thing!!

 

[George Foweraker]

Hi all.

This is the only bowl gouge I use it does me for all of my bowl work.I have used this gouge for the last seven years and it will have been sharpened many thousands of times and produced many hundreds of bowls.
It is an 1/2" Crown bowl gouge and due to very effisiant sharpening I expect it to go on for many more years.
In the last pic you will see it up against a vertualy new gouge of the same make which will show how little wear it has had through proper sharpening.

A couple of the pics are not very good but you can see the shape.

Regards George

 

[gasmansteve]

Hi George
Excellent post BTW. I`d be interested to see how you get that grind as swept back as it appears, is it done by hand or on a jig as I sharpen mine on a Sorby proedge and find the swing a bit confining to get a really long side grind when using the fingernail jig as the jig touches the machine at each side of the swing??
Cheers
Steve

 

[George Foweraker]

Hello Steve.
Most of its life this gouge was sharpened on a Tormec system but now I use a Record 6" grinder and the Sorby jig.
I have a pro edge and use it for all my other tools but as you say you cannot achieve a long grind with it.

Regards George

 

[henton49er]

Hi George
Excellent post BTW. I`d be interested to see how you get that grind as swept back as it appears, is it done by hand or on a jig as I sharpen mine on a Sorby proedge and find the swing a bit confining to get a really long side grind when using the fingernail jig as the jig touches the machine at each side of the swing??
Cheers
Steve

I have the same problem with my Proedge system, and end up finishing the fingernail grind by hand rather than using the jig. Very unsatisfactory in a system costing around £300 IMO.

Mike

 

[George Foweraker]

Yes I agree.
I know Robert Sorby are aware of this but customer consideration does not in my opinion be one of their strong points.

Regards George

 

[JonF]

I'm glad it's not just me. Being new to turning the most difficult thing so far has been sharpenning the tools. I realised early on that it was going to be a good idea to get hold of a jig. Off I went and bought a second hand 'Storme' setup which was duly installed, the brief instructions followed resulting in a next to useless grind. I trawled the web for any advice, better instuctions, video's... anything to help me use the jig properly and came up with nothing. I did find a single video from Trugrind which helped more and in frustration went out and bought that system as well.

I've got some decent grinds now with the Trugrind system albeit through trial and error. I have to say that the various jig manufacturers are leaving a lot to be desired when it comes to providing adequate instructions and Storme are verging on the negligent!

Rant over

 

[Melinda_dd]

Oh.... the grind on mine is nothing like that!!!

Think i need somemore info on sharpening!!!

 

[jumps]

I'm glad it's not just me. Being new to turning the most difficult thing so far has been sharpenning the tools. I realised early on that it was going to be a good idea to get hold of a jig. Off I went and bought a second hand 'Storme' setup which was duly installed, the brief instructions followed resulting in a next to useless grind. I trawled the web for any advice, better instuctions, video's... anything to help me use the jig properly and came up with nothing. I did find a single video from Trugrind which helped more and in frustration went out and bought that system as well.

I've got some decent grinds now with the Trugrind system albeit through trial and error. I have to say that the various jig manufacturers are leaving a lot to be desired when it comes to providing adequate instructions and Storme are verging on the negligent!

Rant over

Jon

This is one of the better manuals

http://www.tormek.com/en/accessories/bgm100/pdf/instruction_bgm-100_en.pdf

but doesn't, of course, cover the question of which grind....

 

[George Foweraker]

The Tormec isa very good system.

Regards George

 

[gasmansteve]

Yes I agree.
I know Robert Sorby are aware of this but customer consideration does not in my opinion be one of their strong points.

Regards George

Got a Sorby demo at the club tomorrow night think I`ll have a moan at em ! Not that it will make the slightest difference
Steve

 

[George Foweraker]

Hi Steve I expect it will be Chris Pouncy doing the demo.
You will find it very interesting Chris does a good demo.Say Hello to him for me.

Regards George