sharpening technique

[Chris_belgium]

Hello, I'm trying to hone my sharpening skills, I have purchased some waterstones + accesories, and I do manage to get a decent result, but I have the feeling that I'm doing something wrong. I have purchased the David Charlesworht books + have spent hours searching this forum, but have yet to find a simple step by step howto. Wich is really what a novice like me needs. So if anyone has the time and feels up for it, please give me a step by step

Stones I have, 220, 800, 1200, 6000 (+nagura) king brand waterstones + veritas MKII

'technique' I've been using:

Step 1: flattening the back of the blade first with 800 grit, then 1200 grit, then using the ruler trick, hone the back with 6000 grit

Step 2: (using the MKII at 30°) hone the pirmary bevel on the blade again with 800 and then 1200 grit

Step 3: adjusting the brass knob on the MKII to hone a secondary bevel on the 6000 stone


As I said, results are ok, but IMHO should be better. In the DC book he speaks about honing a wire edge with the 800 stone but then fails to explain what to do when achieving this wire edge or even what the reason for this wire edge is. (surely all my fault, since English is not my mother language, lost in translation and all that ) I can get a wire edge when I only sharpen with a pull stroke, but as soon as I start going back and forth, I am not getting a wire edge?

Another thing wich is unclear to me is, is the nagura stone only to be used on the 6000 grit or should it be used on the 1200/800 also?

Thanks for your time, christof.

 

[Karl]

Chris

Reading your post, it seems the most obvious thing that you are doing wrong is not removing the burr caused by sharpening the primary/secondary bevel.

If you sharpen in the order listed in your post, you've got is wrong way round. Hone your edge first, then use the ruler trick to polish the back edge of the blade and remove the burr.

HTH

Cheers

Karl

 

[Chris_belgium]

Chris

Reading your post, it seems the most obvious thing that you are doing wrong is not removing the burr caused by sharpening the primary/secondary bevel.

If you sharpen in the order listed in your post, you've got is wrong way round. Hone your edge first, then use the ruler trick to polish the back edge of the blade and remove the burr.

HTH

Cheers

Karl

The honing of the back I was talking about is, when I was flattening the back prior to sharpening the bevel. When I sharpen the bevel, I'm not getting a wire edge. Only when I use pull strokes I can get a wire edge, as soon as I start going back and forth, I can't get a wire edge.

I know I must be doing something wrong, just can't figure out what it is.

 

[nimmaj]

Hi Christof,

Maybe it's best just to use pull strokes for the moment, then - it's the wire edge that's important. That's what i'm doing, anyway. For the moment ;-)

I'm also with Karl in that i use the ruler trick to remove the wire edge after bevel sharpening. So i spend a while flattening the back once (when the blade is new), and then after that my sharpening routine is (presuming i'm not re-grinding at 25):

1/. 800 @ thirty odd degrees
2/. 8000 @ a couple more than that above
3/. turn blade over and use ruler trick to remove wire edge

Are you using a curved blade?

I think DC's sharpening dvd might be the thing to watch at this stage.

Hope that helps!

Ben

 

[Ironballs]

Chris, I have a similar waterstone set up to you and also use the Veritas MkII. I also flatten the back first, then do the primary and secondary bevels, the last thing I do is a couple of strokes on the back again with the 8000 stone. If I do that then you can take the hairs off your arm.

I did notice that when using the Veritas and waterstones I didn't really get a prominent wire edge (burr) that I had before when doing by hand on an oilstone. But my results are much better and more consistent now

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Chris

There are so many methods for sharpening blades that it is no wonder that a novice becomes confused. Even here you will hear apparently contradictory advice, simply because people do it differently.

But there is a common denominator - in every successful sharpening method you have to create a sharp intersection of two sides. Whether you do this with full sides or microbevels it is all the same.

The second common feature is that both sides of the bevel (front and back) need to be honed to the same level.

Now I am going to suggest that you stop using David Charlesworth's method at this point. It is not that his method is poor, but I think it is overly complex for a beginner. It is a method that provides shortcuts, and these shortcuts can make it difficult for you to know what progress your edge is making.

The way you keep track of progress is to "feel" for a wire edge developing. The presence of a wire edge tells you that the two sides of the bevel have become one. Unless you get a wire edge, your bevel is still made up of two side joined by a rounded edge. Round is not sharp.

Monitoring a wire edge on a microbevel is difficult. The DC method uses many microbevels.

So I am going to suggest that you do it a different way. A longer way. But consider this a training method. And you are free to return to David's method later.

1. Start with a flat blade back. It must be honed to 6000.

To get there you may need to run through a series of grits. This is best done on sandaper glued to glass - 120 grit, 240 grit, 600, 1200, and then your 6000 stone.

Do not shortcut this process with the Ruler Trick. The Ruler Trick is really only for old blades, not new blades. It has serious limitations for advanced sharpeners, but does offer a good shortcut for the less advanced. But for now avoid it.

Once you get the back to 6000, do not touch it again.

2. Set your honing guide for 25 degrees (if that is what you have been using as a primary bevel) and run the blade on your 800 stone until you get a single bevel. You will know when this occurs as you will create that wire edge.

Once you have a wire edge, keep the blade in the guide but turn it over and run the back of the blade on the 6000 stone until the wire edge is removed. Just hold it flat on the stone and rub it back and forth until the wire edge is gone or appears to have become very tiny.

3. Repeat the above step using the 1200 stone. Again remove the wire edge on the 6000 stone.

Removing the wire edge each time allows you to determine that you are honing all the way to the edge each time.

4. Ditto the 6000 stone. And ditto the wire edge removal.

You will now have a frighteningly sharp edge.

As I wrote earlier, this method is not the quickest, but it is the easiest to monitor what is happening, and this education is vital to move on as a sharpener.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[SeanG]

Hi Chris,

With waterstones and bevel sharpening stick to pull strokes, a push could cause a corner to dig in.

Major rule for them - flatten often!!

The nagura is only used on the 6000, this stone should be sprayed lightly with water then wiped with the nagura to form a slurry.

For your step 2, 800 only.

as others have said - David's material gives an excellent method.

 

[Benchwayze]

Chris,
Are you allowing the blade to roll (alter its angle too much) when you move back and forth.

The secret to honing without a guide is to move your forearm in 'one piece' and don't cock the wrist like you do in golf! (if you play the game that is.)

If you grind the primary bevel hollow on a thick blade, just place the blade on the stone so both sides of the hollow-grind are in contact and then move the blade in figure of eight motion. Flip the blade over and remove the wire edge almost as soon as it forms. Keep doing it until the wire edge is all but a whisker and then do it some more.

The idea is that the two sides of the blade meet at 'zero' and form an edge; in theory of course. There is always going to be a minute 'rounding', but you won't see it and your blade will be 'wicked-sharp'.

The more you hone, the better you get!

Good luck.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Chris


The way you keep track of progress is to "feel" for a wire edge developing. The presence of a wire edge tells you that the two sides of the bevel have become one. Unless you get a wire edge, your bevel is still made up of two side joined by a rounded edge. Round is not sharp.

Derek

Absolutely Derek, except that this 'point-zero' is just theory. Zero is when the wire-edge stops forming, which of course it never does. Each time you hone the bevel, a wire-edge forms again. Yes, the more times you remove the wire-edge, the closer you get to zero. However, there is always going to be a slight round. So minute you can't see it. And I assure you, there is nothing wrong with the edges on my plane irons.

The expert on rounded bevels v angled bevels is not on this Forum now, but he swore by them especially on chisels!

Cheers

 

[LarryS.]

thanks for that guide derek, been looking for a straightforward method and i think you've just given it to me

 

[Chris_belgium]

Victory , made my first 'effort' less full length end grain shaving on a piece of hardwood tonight, felt great!

Thanks for the explanation Derek, really cleared things up for me!!

Thanks everyone for the help and tips!!

 

[MIGNAL]

For the ultimate edge you can also go to some stropping paste immediately after using the 6,000. I use the green cutting soap but some people use Autosol. I suggest a very flat piece of Hardwood impregnated with the compound. Stones allow you to use both push and pull strokes, however with the stropping board you can only do pull strokes otherwise the blade digs in. 8 or so pull strokes will give you a keener edge. Keep the blade in the sharpening jig (assuming that's your method) when honing. I finish off by removing the blade from the guide and completing a few more pull strokes on the flat side of the blade.

 

[joiner_sim]

When I sharpen a plane blade or chisel, these are the steps I fiollow:

(I use a diamond stone with water for lubrication)
1. Flatten the back of the chisel. That means so flat that its like a mirror all the way up to the sharp point edge.

2. Sharpen up the cutting edge. I dont really worry much about getting the angle right, I just use the water on my diamond stone as a guide. I tilt the chisel back and then forward until it puches the water forward, I then go back and forth in a figure of eight, keeping the chisel dead straight.

3. Flatten the back again. I then wipe off all the excess water from the chisel. If I had a leather strop I would then de-burr my chisel on that, but because I don't I just use a rag.

I find this gives me a sharp enough cutting edge.

BTW..... I only use a 600 grit EZE LAP diamond stone.

 

[bugbear]

Hi Chris,

With waterstones and bevel sharpening stick to pull strokes, a push could cause a corner to dig in.

This is true for freehand sharpening, espcially on soft waterstones.

But using a honing guide, especially one with a wide roller, makes digging in most unlikely.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

Hi Chris,

With waterstones and bevel sharpening stick to pull strokes, a push could cause a corner to dig in.

This is true for freehand sharpening, espcially on soft waterstones.

But using a honing guide, especially one with a wide roller, makes digging in most unlikely.

BugBear

I always relieve the corners of plane blades (a slight rounding) so they don't dig in - Rob

 

[gidon]

Chris

I have a few videos on Youtube demonstrating some sharpening techniques (see this thread for background to videos) you may or may not find useful (can also be found in Videossection of site). The second link may be of most help to you but you may get some tips from the other links too:

Sharpening a chisel with diamond stones
Sharpening a bench plane iron with waterstones
Grinding and honing a chisel freehand

Cheers

Gidon

 

[Chris_belgium]

Chris

I have a few videos on Youtube demonstrating some sharpening techniques (see this thread for background to videos) you may or may not find useful (can also be found in Videossection of site). The second link may be of most help to you but you may get some tips from the other links too:

Sharpening a chisel with diamond stones
Sharpening a bench plane iron with waterstones
Grinding and honing a chisel freehand

Cheers

Gidon

Thanks, very helpfull!!