Sharpening by hand

[Keefaz]

Hi, all!

I thought I'd try and pick your brains in regards to sharpening. My current set-up is a stone like this:

and another stone like this:

My typical routine is: flatten the back on the coarse stone, then onto the combination stone to polish it up. Then apply the initial bevel on the coarse stone--using a guide--and take it onto the combi stone to refine. Then apply the micro-bevel on the combi stone and polish it up nicely.

And it works. Pretty much. But! It's taking hours! That old Record #5 I got the other week.... blimey! I cleaned it all up, removed the blade and spent basically the whole day getting it sharp. Just to flatten the back took hours. What am I doing wrong? Or is this simply how long it takes? Even new chisels take a good hour+ to flatten!

 

[George_N]

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. You don't need to flatten and polish the whole back of a blade though, just the last few mm, and you only need to do it once for each blade. One of these lapping kits might speed things up...haven't used one though.

 

[Anonymous]

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[ike]

Hi Jacob,

What's with all this flattening and polishing?

Flattening is a once only job on chisels or plane blades. Some may feel it's not necessary at all, others may be obsessed with flatness (granite surface plates, coordinate measuring machines do seem rather OTT I agree!).

Basically a little concavity on plane blades or chisels is better than convexity. As for polishing, for myself, after honing on the fine stone (1200 for me) polishing is but a few seconds on either a 4000 waterstone or a a leather strop with polishing soap to give an extra keen razor edge. I find polishing does improve the cut.

cheers,

ike

 

[Paul Chapman]

In my experience it all depends on how flat your blades are and how much metal you need to remove. I've found that Clifton and Veritas (new) blades take a matter of minutes whereas some others take forever. You might also want to check that all your stones are equally flat - if not that could cause you problems :wink:

Paul

 

[Keefaz]

Oh! While we're on the subject! A number of books I've been reading have been talking about the blades of planes being curved or convex in shape to ensure the the plane only takes shavings from the centre of the blade.

Assuming you want this, how on earth do you go about creating a curved blade?!

 

[j]

If you get the chance, I suggest you look at David Charlesworth's DVD on sharpening.
He likes the curved blade method, and shows you how to do it.

I can't remember how he did it now, but there was nothing particularly tricky.

 

[ike]

how on earth do you go about creating a curved blade?!

Usually by accident if your stone isn't flat! :roll:

Ike

 

[George_N]

If you sharpen without a guide you'll probably get a camber or curved edge without even trying. If you use a guide like the Veritas Mk II you get a very straight edge because of the wide roller. Narrow roller guides like the Eclipse will probably also give you a camber without trying. Veritas have brought out a camber rollerto address the problem of only being able to get a straight edge with their Mk II guide. There has been a lot of discussion on this site recently about cambered blades and why you need them in a plane (not on a chisel though)...do a search and you'll find more lots information.
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[Alf]

If you get the chance, I suggest you look at David Charlesworth's DVD on sharpening.

Or have a look at the Woodworking Channel; they've been showing extracts off and on. Basically you just want to put more pressure on the outside edges when you hone the bevel - the greater the desired camber, the more strokes the outer edges need.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

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[ike]

Usually on purpose by using a stone worn in the middle!

Yeah, I was joking! I'd keep my stones flat but do as suggested and vary the pressure from side to side, that way you set the amount of camber and not the stone.

cheers,

Ike

 

[RogerM]

I have a 2 sided Indian Oilstone, coarse on one side and fine (red) on the other. The coarse side is becoming worn in the middle, so do I have to get a new stone to sharpen my chisels to keep the cutting edge straight, and maybe keep the old one for smoothing plane blades? Or is there some way to flatten the grindling surface, and if so, is it worth it!

I use an eclipse sharpening guide which I reckon is fine, but then I've never used any other method of sharpening!

 

[ike]

Depends how badly worn it is Roger. I'd probably just save the hassle and buy a new oilstone as they are cheap.

Ike

 

[Colin C]

Depends how badly worn it is Roger. I'd probably just save the hassle and buy a new oilstone as they are cheap.

Ike

Or get a diamond stone as Tilgear do the eze-lap's for a good price.
Number 01707 873434

 

[RogerM]

Yeh - I guess I should stop being a cheapskate. £14.56 for double sided oilstone plus honing guide plus oil here

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... e=1&jump=0

Thanks guys

 

[engineer one]

as said elsewhere, i have found that flattening the back of record and stanley plane blades is a longer task than LN or LV, but the first time always takes time.

if you check out the sharpening books either leonard lee's or the tom lie neilson one, they both recommend a flatter back since it actually ensures that your sharpening angle is consistent, also the intersection makes actual cutting better. i think mr grimsdale that if you actually spent the time to flatten the back of one of your planes, even the small bit that
DC now recommends, you would find planing even easier. you do seem to
feel that many modern techniques have no value whilst others have found that modern sharpening techniques just make their lives easier.

it is of course too easy to get really anal about it, i find that chisels which are flat and polished cut more easily, and your angles are generally more
correctly upright, but then maybe i don't have your experience with making the best of a bad job.

in my most recent experience, marples, now irwin and other mass produced chisels do not take the hard work as much as one would like,
client's return them for sharpening much more quickly.

have to say it would be nice to find a quick and easy way to flatten the
bottom of some of my older planes, on emery it seems to take for ever.

paul :wink:

 

[Clinton1]

This came up elsewhere on the web, and I think a lot of people, on that forum, that were dead set in their ways are changing to it.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au ... hp?t=34545

Hopefully I will get to try this on a weekend sharpening demo that forum is running.

Flattening the back is a preference, and I do it.
It is hard work, so I only do an inch or so to cut down on the work. I use wet and dry paper, then go to a waterstone. I'm thinking that diamond stones would be quicker and might get a combo plate. To get a good polish on the second hand blades I buy might take 20 minutes, sometimes more. It depends on the condition of the blade and its hardness I guess.

That bench grinder set up in the link above cuts the time right down, but I work out of a tool box so it isn't for me just yet.

Have fun!

 

[Shady]

Keefaz,

I empathize with you mate: this was exactly the sort of thing that caused me much head-scratching when I started.

Some observations;

Firstly, be aware that everyone has their own preference, so be prepared to sink in a welter of good advice... :wink:

Secondly, I find that it helps to view working blades in 2 ways, with 2 different techniques applied for both:

a) The 'ways' are:

Setting up - on purchase, or after some major cock-up like running it into a bandsaw blade, or when you're changing the grinding angle for a different wood or use.

Running maintenance, which is normally about re-establishing a sharp edge while in use.

b) The 'techniques' are grinding, and honing.

Grinding is coarse work - it has no place in running maintenance, and will not establish a good cutting edge. I use a cheapo slow running water wheel to avoid damaging the temper of the steel for the edge, and carborundum grit on a steel lapping plate if flattening a back. This is how I 'set' the angles, flatness etc. This can take a while, but more on that later. Carborundum is significntly faster than a waterstone.

Honing is getting the steel that now has the geometry I want sharp enough to cut - this should be all that is necessary in the 'running maintenance' phase of a tool's life. That's where I use waterstones, and a strop if appropriate.

If you want some idea of actual speeds, check out this link, where I tuned up a battered and rusty old chisel: you will get faster... :wink:

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/Shady_on_Sharpening.htm

(Oh and as an after thought, don't go though the whole back flattening rigamarole unless the tool actually needs it: check with a straight edge, and make use of DC's ruler trick to minimise the amount of work: the only time I'll flatten a whole back is if it's in an awful rusty state, or convex. As others have said, the higher up the quality ladder you purchase, the less of an issue this should be.)

 

[Anonymous]

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