Sharpening and Practice Video

[bugbear]

I've seen wooden cisterns, made with dovetail joints, in old National Trust houses and even in old public toilets - sometimes it pays to look up instead of down!

And it pays to look inside - they are always either lead, zinc or copper lined.

Ok! You are less shy than I am at climbing about in unexpected places! :lol: :lol:

Looks like the brits didn't have the know-how of the Hungarians and Japanese.

Henry Stephen (as in "book of the farm") shows a large water trough for cattle which which is simply butt jointed and strapped with iron, unlined.

"When made of good timber, and painted, they last many years"

BugBear

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Despite its (perceived by some) possible practical downside compared to the use of more modern materials, I find the idea of using wood to store water interesting. I also found his unusual technique to make it waterproof without adding anything interesting. I did think the video was a tad long but to deny that he is a craftsman is surely just plain wrong? He's either a considerable craftsman or seriously OCD where plumb bobs are concerned!!

 

[Jacob]

I didn't mean to suggest that he wasn't a craftsmen but I do think he (and a lot of the others) are showman - it's not called a media circus for no reason!
It can blur issues - frinstance he does a high speed dovetail demo somewhere which looks very showy but in fact is very much how DTs were done in the old days - freehand, fast and furious, but you'd never know.

I don't see his box not leaking for long!

 

[iNewbie]

Hmm dunno - more showman than craftsmen IMO. Who keeps water in a wooden box? Barrels yes, and I have encountered wooden cisterns usually lead lined, but otherwise nobody in their right mind!
Surprisingly fussy sharpening techniques for a practical man. Pleasantly free of product placement, but I only watched a bit - it's more than an hour long!

Apparently Canadian Cedar wood doesn't need lining - very poplar in NYC, unlined tanks...

Water Tanks


Pics link is at the bottom.

 

[charvercarver]

Hmm dunno - more showman than craftsmen IMO. Who keeps water in a wooden box? Barrels yes, and I have encountered wooden cisterns usually lead lined, but otherwise nobody in their right mind!
Surprisingly fussy sharpening techniques for a practical man. Pleasantly free of product placement, but I only watched a bit - it's more than an hour long!

Why would a box be leakier than a barrel? If the joints are swollen with water and restricted from pushing apart then they will seal in both cases wouldn't they?

 

[Jacob]

Hmm dunno - more showman than craftsmen IMO. Who keeps water in a wooden box? Barrels yes, and I have encountered wooden cisterns usually lead lined, but otherwise nobody in their right mind!
Surprisingly fussy sharpening techniques for a practical man. Pleasantly free of product placement, but I only watched a bit - it's more than an hour long!

Why would a box be leakier than a barrel? If the joints are swollen with water and restricted from pushing apart then they will seal in both cases wouldn't they?

Barrels leak. Stopping barrels from leaking was a continuous maintenance problem it seems. The shape of the barrel contributes to the water tightness - they don't make them box shaped.
OK so you could make a water tight box but the problems are such that nobody does it when there are better alternatives - stone troughs, pottery, glass, plastic, metal, leather etc.
These are interesting http://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHis ... -XVI-6.php

 

[Paul Chapman]

OK so you could make a water tight box but the problems are such that nobody does it

Well, Frank Klausz does. He obviously knows more about making wooden, water-tight boxes than you do. Not surprising if you know about Frank's background and training.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[blackrodd]

... by Mr. Dovetail himself.

Chisels, #4 plane and dovetail saw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6oOOmswYZU

I'm not sure how this has got away with being on youtube, it might not be there for long.

Certainly knows his trade. I was amazed at the bruised timber construction of the water box.
oil stones kept in parafin cut really well too.
Pity about the hinge chopping, p'raps he woz in a rush towards the end of the vid.
Rodders

 

[charvercarver]

Jacob:

Really interesting links, I had never heard of brewers pitch before. I suppose stitch plank boats also benefit from their shape compared to a box, but still with strong enough joinery and enough nails it obviously can be done. Clearly there are easier and more effective ways of making a water tight container, but I do find something appealing about fighting water with water, so to speak.

 

[Graham Orm]

... by Mr. Dovetail himself.

Chisels, #4 plane and dovetail saw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6oOOmswYZU

I'm not sure how this has got away with being on youtube, it might not be there for long.

I've downloaded it. Thanks for the link Richard. :wink:

 

[Graham Orm]

I did wonder whether that technique would produce a symmetrical set, by twisting between every other pair of teeth ? His saw did seem to cut straight though.
videos.

Actually it didn't if you watch closely. Hard to tell if it was the set out or if he was just rushing trying to show how sharp the thing was.

Enjoyed the watch though.

 

[bugbear]

OK so you could make a water tight box but the problems are such that nobody does it when there are better alternatives - stone troughs, pottery, glass, plastic, metal, leather etc.

It's not that people "could" make water tight boxes, people actually "did".

And traditional crafts tend to be based on deep experience, as you should know by now.

BugBear

 

[Corneel]

This is a pretty old video, 1980's I guess? Funny to see the tools. Most furniture making hobbyists nowadays would regard them as second rate at best. They didn't hold him back to run a succesfull business though.

I agree with Jacob, it's all most show and not much information. You have to buy more video's if you want to learn more.

 

[Jacob]

OK so you could make a water tight box but the problems are such that nobody does it when there are better alternatives - stone troughs, pottery, glass, plastic, metal, leather etc.

It's not that people "could" make water tight boxes, people actually "did".

And traditional crafts tend to be based on deep experience, as you should know by now.

BugBear

Deep experience of water-containing persuaded people to make water-containers out of many materials rather than wood.
Count the liquid containers in your house and compare the number of wooden ones against other materials and you may see what I mean.

But I can see it catching on - Klausz does it so it must be right - crazy sharpeners struggling to prevent their wooden water boxes from leaking all over the workshops. :lol:

 

[bugbear]

Compare the liquid containers in your house and compare the number of wooden ones against other materials and you may see what I mean.

You're right. Time moves on, and technology improves. For example, I have UPVC windows now.

BugBear

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I think my point originally was not that wood is an excellent material for making watertight fixtures. It was more to do with being fascinated by how he had got it to work ie the pressing of the fibres so they would swell etc. Of course in modern day living you'd be nuts to go around advocating wood as a watery container with all the modern plastics etc.

I just found the provenance of it interesting....it kind of shows one point of origin from whence modern materials have taken over. On the same lines, I've always been interested in barrels (including their oak aged contents it must be said

So I wasn't really advocating wholesale "regression" into outside toilets and wooden water vessels. You do have a considerable skill in promoting discussion Jacob

 

[RossJarvis]

So I wasn't really advocating wholesale "regression" into outside toilets and wooden water vessels.

Now now Bob, you're not suggesting we all do that filthy unhygienic business inside the house are you? Where people live? And I'm telling you, those new fangled porcelain sinks are very fragile, washing a calf in them, the hooves'll crack em open sooner than give you time of day!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

:lol:

 

[Richard T]

Bob wrote: I've always been interested in barrels

(A pedant writes) 36 gallon casks? Why so specific?

That cask list in full:
Pin = 4.5

Firkin = 9

Kilderkin = 18

Barrel = 36

Hogshead = 54

Butt = 108

Tun = 216

 

[Sheffield Tony]

From http://www.barrelsrus.co.uk/barrels-r-us-history-of-coopering.html ??