Sharpening a 20 TPI saw

[Nigel Burden]

I personally struggle with anything smaller than fourteen tpi. Practice on something larger and then progress to the smaller teeth as Cheshire Chappie said. Make sure that you have very good light.

Nigel.

 

[mrbadexample]

The usual advice is to practice on something with larger teeth before attempting a fine-toothed saw, but I suppose if you can successfully sharpen a 26tpi saw, you'll be able to tackle anything saw-shaped! And if that's what you've got the tools for, why not have a go? If the first attempts are not that good, just joint the toothline straight, reshape the teeth, and have another go.

(Do have a watch (or two) of Andy Lovelock's video first, though. You'll have a much better idea of what you need to do, and how to go about it, after digesting it.)

I've had a watch - very informative. I've a saw file on order so I'll try the tenon first. I'm not expecting much but don't reckon I can make it much worse.

The little saw will need more care, I think. The teeth are unevenly worn so it will need jointing first.

What's the easiest way to make a reasonable handle for this needle file please?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Many moons ago, I bought a needle file handle. It was made of blue plastic, roughly triangular in section, and had a brass chuck to hold the file's stem. It's possibly the most uncomfortable file handle I've ever had the misfortune of using.

Needing a small handle in a hurry one day (for a small saw file, as it happens), I drilled a hole in the end of a piece of dowel, stuffed the file's tang into it, cut off the dowel and rounded the end roughly with a knife. Amazingly comfortable - just nestles nicely in the palm of the hand, and the roughness (within reason) doesn't matter a jot. No ferrule - the sort of force a small file needs to use it makes one unnecessary. Didn't bother with a finish, either. Took all of five minutes to make.

For a needle file, you may have to try one or two sizes of drill to get a nice tight fit on the stem, but the knurled bits should help in keeping it in place. If the first one isn't to your liking, just sling it on the fire and make another.

What size of dowel? Well, within reason, whatever you have to hand. No dowel? Just whittle a piece of any old offcut, or a bit of stick, whatever. No need of fancy finish, just something that sits nicely in the hand is all that's needed.

Not a bad habit to get into, making your own tools, or parts thereof, when needed. It can save a lot of bother and many pennies. Careful, though - tool making can become an addictive pastime all of it's own!

 

[Argus]

For handles, I tend to use old wine-bottle corks on small files.

The type that you get from Cava or Champagene type bottles - i.e. have a rounded end to them and will fit into the palm, are ideal.
Just shove the tang in the blind end. So far I've had no issue with them coming off.

 

[AndyT]

I think the last two replies cover the ground nicely, whether you have ready access to champagne or old sticks! Make your lifestyle choice wisely now.

 

[mrbadexample]

I'm in the stick club. :lol:

I did consider fashioning a triangular handle that would, if correctly aligned, serve as an indicator of the face alignment. :idea:

Here's the saw in question:

 

[Hand Plane]

Mastering saw sharpening has been on my agenda for a while (previous attempts not being very successful) and the above comments and particularly the Andy Lovelock video are very interesting and useful.

However the subject of saw setting pliers needs addressing.

There seems to be a scarcity of new tools/manufacturers. I have emailed Spear and Jackson about their current model as the range of teeth which can be set is not included on their website.

There are plenty Eclipse 77 on ebay, but I have seen an article that they came in two anvil sizes, one for 4 - 12 tpi, and the other for >12tpi. However from the adverts I have seen on ebay, nothing has been included regarding which size of tool is for sale.

Does anyone know how they may be distinguished (eg anything on the handle)?

Does anyone know the width of the anvil for saws with >12tpi as all of my saws fall into that category?

 

[AndyT]

I have read that it's easy to remove the anvil and file it down to suit.
I've also seen it said that on tiny teeth it's feasible to slightly twist a slim screwdriver in each gullet.

 

[Ttrees]

There are plenty Eclipse 77 on ebay, but I have seen an article that they came in two anvil sizes, one for 4 - 12 tpi, and the other for >12tpi. However from the adverts I have seen on ebay, nothing has been included regarding which size of tool is for sale.

Does anyone know how they may be distinguished (eg anything on the handle)?

Does anyone know the width of the anvil for saws with >12tpi as all of my saws fall into that category?

I believe that the no.77s with the red paint on the inside of the handle are for finer teeth.
If you see a good photo of these together you might notice that the design of the finer type doesn't have the raised or haunched part of the main casting.

 

[deema]

TTrees has highlighted the difference between the two eclipse setters. The only thing to add is that the numbers around the anvil are just that numbers. They do not relate to the tooth count. They are just a reference for repeat setting of the anvil.

Buy any Eclipse saw set and just take it apart (very easy) and file the hammer to match the tooth size you want. I small hammer will set big teeth just as well and small ones. There are steel and bronze versions, the steel ones go for very little and do exactly the same job!

One other thing to mention. Saw files have six cutting faces, it’s the edges that do virtually all of the work and wear out quickly. A standard triangular file will normally only have three cutting faces, the flat sides, and arnt any use for sharpening saws.

 

[Hand Plane]

Thanks for the responses.

I assume that to get the desired tooth set this is a case of 'suck it and see' and then note the anvil setting number for future reference.

(I'll be on the case in the near future when certain other things are off my back, but I feel a lot better informed on how to go about the task.)

 

[Ttrees]

Having made a good few mistakes myself on the first and.only.saw I've sharpened so far, so defiantly a saw sharpening newbie perspective.
I might aswell try and save your file some.
Agreed about watching Andy Lovelock's video a few times,I followed the recipie closely for my panel saw.
Made a similar vice, a few inches longer, that looks awkward but is a nice feature for resting your forearm on whilst sitting down .
Make those wee blocks longer than 3" if you want a point instead of a stub!
I made a batch of 3" cuts before knowing this.

I also noticed that the first tooth bends easier than the rest so go very lightly on the ends.
Another thing I learned was to make sure the test piece is level before establishing drift. Silly me.
Having Just bonded one of those eBay diamond 1000g hones to a bit of granite stove hearth offcut, I was happy to have just the job for it, and one or two extra swipes was the
Straw that broke the camels back.
Have too little set now, and will have to fix this when.I set up the vice again for a dovetail saw.


Just start at the finest setting and go over them again, if needed. I dotted the side of every tooth that was towards me, setting the shiny ones.

If you are doing an old cross cut saw, that is in bad Nick, study the teeth under a good light, sitting down comfortably, before you level the teeth with a file...
If it needs doing atall.
The cold can make one reluctant to sit down : )
Zone into those facets, I found making a crude drawing of the facets in relation to the handle, was well worth doing also.
E.g. Handle on right with facets starting on second tooth.from it.
They may disappear or be quite undistinguished if levelled beforehand.
You might find that a hard spot on the sawplate might take a bit of method to get a toothline
That's not concave, I had this issue and chose to breast or crown my saw slightly to counter this, /allow room for error.


Tom