I seem to have progressed past 60 without learning this skill. Until recently all my planes were either wooden or had adjusters. Tapping a cast iron body dosn't seem right and proper, wiggling a loose blade too imprecise, and sliding the blade down onto a piece of flat scrap as per a scraper plane usually sets me up for at least a 10 thou shaving! What works best for you, please?
Setting adjusterless metal block planes?
- Thread starter ivan
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
MikeW
Established Member
Hi Ivan--which plane? I assume it has some method involving a screw for tightening down vs. a wdge, say like an infill may have?
In any case, I usually just sight down the sole until I see a glimmer against the tip of the blade. Look for an even reveal of the blade, side to side. I use less of an even reveal for a wedge-based plane than a metal cap-type which tightens down.
Tighten the screw or wedge.
Take care, Mike
In any case, I usually just sight down the sole until I see a glimmer against the tip of the blade. Look for an even reveal of the blade, side to side. I use less of an even reveal for a wedge-based plane than a metal cap-type which tightens down.
Tighten the screw or wedge.
Take care, Mike
A
Anonymous
Guest
You must enter a message when posting
Pekka Huhta
Established Member
I have to disagree that light tapping would damage the cast iron body. If you look at any plane with no adjustment (say, 102 or 110), there is always a thicker, sort of arrow-shaped portion on the back of the plane, intended for adjusting the plane. Now, take for example a 103 with an adjustment and you find that the thicker part is missing.
I have always been taught that hitting a plane with a hammer (even a small one) is just as wise as prying stuck shavings from the plane's mouth with a screwdriver. No matter how small the hammer or the screwdriver. So there is truth about not hitting a plane, but hitting them with wood or a leather mallet doesn't count.
What you should do is to ease the tightening screw (or lever, whatever you have) and adjust by tapping just as you would adjust a wooden plane. I use either a small leather hammer which is always hanging just next to the workbench or just a teak or other hardwood scrap (whatever is small and handy).
My father has used that method always and I still go on using the same adjustment on the same tools, so I would say it's not killing the plane right away
Pekka
I have always been taught that hitting a plane with a hammer (even a small one) is just as wise as prying stuck shavings from the plane's mouth with a screwdriver. No matter how small the hammer or the screwdriver. So there is truth about not hitting a plane, but hitting them with wood or a leather mallet doesn't count.
What you should do is to ease the tightening screw (or lever, whatever you have) and adjust by tapping just as you would adjust a wooden plane. I use either a small leather hammer which is always hanging just next to the workbench or just a teak or other hardwood scrap (whatever is small and handy).
My father has used that method always and I still go on using the same adjustment on the same tools, so I would say it's not killing the plane right away
Pekka
A
Anonymous
Guest
You must enter a message when posting
A
Anonymous
Guest
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about damaging it. I don't think much of those sort of planes. :lol: ...but, uno, even if it was a goodie, whats the point of having it, if you can't even adjust it for fear of damaging it. At most all you'll do to it is put a little ding on the top of the blade where the hammer hits.....thats nothing.
Yeh, I agree with what was said before......you adjust it with hammer taps in the same manner as adjusting a wooden wedged plane.
Personally wouldn't use a wooden mallet. Want to be able to make quick little taps with bite. A small metal hammer thats easy to aim still with some weight behind it. I often just use a little pin hammer. Wood dings up, absorbing too much of the strike as well.
I like to adjust a plane often on a pre-planed surface. Saves on having to squint like buggery to sight it down the sole....this may help
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au ... hp?t=23834
starts at post #11....
Yeh, I agree with what was said before......you adjust it with hammer taps in the same manner as adjusting a wooden wedged plane.
Personally wouldn't use a wooden mallet. Want to be able to make quick little taps with bite. A small metal hammer thats easy to aim still with some weight behind it. I often just use a little pin hammer. Wood dings up, absorbing too much of the strike as well.
I like to adjust a plane often on a pre-planed surface. Saves on having to squint like buggery to sight it down the sole....this may help
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au ... hp?t=23834
starts at post #11....
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Hi Jake,
That's a great modification you made to the Eclipse honing guide with the small bearing. Real cool 8) 8)
Paul
That's a great modification you made to the Eclipse honing guide with the small bearing. Real cool 8) 8)
Paul
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ta Paul. A homemade version of those veritas Mark thingys...... But mines better ! :lol: (maybe not)......but it can get the blade down low to sharpen at about 2 degrees consistantly. I'm pretty shore the veritas numbers can't do that.....but then I don't own one, so I probably wouldn't know.
Have to keep an eye out for broken skateboards and scooters in skips for the bearing I reakon.....
Have to keep an eye out for broken skateboards and scooters in skips for the bearing I reakon.....
Thanks for your suggestions!
My woodworking began with wooden bodies planes in the school workshop, but all my own have adjusters - that is until I was given a Record, and (I think a Footprint) copy of a block plane with a bull nose option at one end. Both have the blade held by a cap that slips under a bar, and with a big wheel under the palm rest, to tighten things up. I thought they'd be useful for my box of 'house jobs' tools, so I sharpened them up, flattend the soles, and had a go. Part of my difficulty is caused by the blades squirming, when tightening from the can-adjust-with-fingers position.
I'll have a go with tapping on the blade; you can't use a mallet on the one with 2 cutter positions.
regards to all, Ivan
My woodworking began with wooden bodies planes in the school workshop, but all my own have adjusters - that is until I was given a Record, and (I think a Footprint) copy of a block plane with a bull nose option at one end. Both have the blade held by a cap that slips under a bar, and with a big wheel under the palm rest, to tighten things up. I thought they'd be useful for my box of 'house jobs' tools, so I sharpened them up, flattend the soles, and had a go. Part of my difficulty is caused by the blades squirming, when tightening from the can-adjust-with-fingers position.
I'll have a go with tapping on the blade; you can't use a mallet on the one with 2 cutter positions.
regards to all, Ivan
Pekka Huhta
Established Member
If you have a plane on the Stanley 130 fashion with the bullnose option on the other end, that should'n be tapped (as you surely figured out). The thin section on the bullnose end will break.
My first plane was a 102 copy and it's still my most loved plane, counting all of them. I have tapped the body a lot and even had to flatten the sole a bit on the back since it has flared a bit from the tapping over the years.
I have to admit that it took me years to be able to set the plane correctly, but it had more to do with the thing that it was my first one and I was a wee little boy when I got it. AND it had a lever instead of the wheel for tightening, which is much more difficult to use.
Good luck practising.
Pekka
My first plane was a 102 copy and it's still my most loved plane, counting all of them. I have tapped the body a lot and even had to flatten the sole a bit on the back since it has flared a bit from the tapping over the years.
I have to admit that it took me years to be able to set the plane correctly, but it had more to do with the thing that it was my first one and I was a wee little boy when I got it. AND it had a lever instead of the wheel for tightening, which is much more difficult to use.
Good luck practising.
Pekka
David C
In Memorium
What a splendid Eclipse type modification for the lower back bevels, in that Australian forum!
Also confirms my belief that 65 degrees or even seventy, effective pitch is the way to plane the nastiest woods without tearout.
Terry Gordon has a good way of getting into the right ball park when setting wooden planes. It also works well for metal scraper planes, and metal planes without adjusters.
Have a dense flat setting block of the hardest timber available.
Place the plane on the block.
Allow the blade to settle onto the block.
Insert and tap the wedge gently to seat it.
Make further fine adjustments as usual, if required.
If a larger shaving is desired, put one sheet of paper under the heel or toe of the plane. {Paper often around 4 thou", shaving about 2 thou" etc etc}
best wishes,
David Charlesworth
Also confirms my belief that 65 degrees or even seventy, effective pitch is the way to plane the nastiest woods without tearout.
Terry Gordon has a good way of getting into the right ball park when setting wooden planes. It also works well for metal scraper planes, and metal planes without adjusters.
Have a dense flat setting block of the hardest timber available.
Place the plane on the block.
Allow the blade to settle onto the block.
Insert and tap the wedge gently to seat it.
Make further fine adjustments as usual, if required.
If a larger shaving is desired, put one sheet of paper under the heel or toe of the plane. {Paper often around 4 thou", shaving about 2 thou" etc etc}
best wishes,
David Charlesworth
A
Anonymous
Guest
You must enter a message when posting
MikeW
Established Member
Hi Jacob,
I don't think so. But I haven't tried it either. A planer's blade's incidence of attack is already not very optimum in comparison to other cutting methods.
Look at your planer's blade. In particular, look at its back as it is coming to top dead center. The angle of the back of the blade is fairly steep. At least on the few smaller ones I have owned. By putting a back bevel on the blades one would be making it even more vertical. Effectively creating a powered scraper the greater the BB angle.
I had a 24" planer and the head was 3.5" in diameter. Its larger diameter allowed for a shallower angle to mount the blade. The larger the head the blades mount in, the lower that "bedding" angle is. This creates a lower incidence of attack and so is more of a shearing cut.
Well, you got the last of the brain cells tonight [my tonight]. So I need to go replenish them. Hope this helps.
Take care, Mike
I don't think so. But I haven't tried it either. A planer's blade's incidence of attack is already not very optimum in comparison to other cutting methods.
Look at your planer's blade. In particular, look at its back as it is coming to top dead center. The angle of the back of the blade is fairly steep. At least on the few smaller ones I have owned. By putting a back bevel on the blades one would be making it even more vertical. Effectively creating a powered scraper the greater the BB angle.
I had a 24" planer and the head was 3.5" in diameter. Its larger diameter allowed for a shallower angle to mount the blade. The larger the head the blades mount in, the lower that "bedding" angle is. This creates a lower incidence of attack and so is more of a shearing cut.
Well, you got the last of the brain cells tonight [my tonight]. So I need to go replenish them. Hope this helps.
Take care, Mike
David C
In Memorium
Jacob,
I believe all (good) old time machinists knew and used this trick.
A 10 to 15 degree back bevel on machine planer blades cuts down tearout on the nastier interlocked or rowed grain timbers. It works very well for the denser timbers it may not work so well on very soft spongy sycamore, which I have sometimes come across and soft woods like cedar of lebanon.
The back bevel can sometimes be worked with a slipstone without removing the blades from the block, if you have an older english type machine. This bevel does not need to be wide. I think half a mm would be ample, possibly less.
I used this trick for about 25 years and it really works a treat. Very frustrated at the moment with a new euro machine with highly profiled quick change blades. They only protrude by about 1 mm and are almost impossible to modify. This advanced technology has moved my m/c planing finish back to the dark ages. I will change the machine as soon as time permits.
The only downside of this technique is greater power consumption and therefore possibly finer cuts.
I describe it on page 40 of my first book. and it is mentioned in the machining book by Nigel S.Voisey.
best wishes,
David Charlesworth
I believe all (good) old time machinists knew and used this trick.
A 10 to 15 degree back bevel on machine planer blades cuts down tearout on the nastier interlocked or rowed grain timbers. It works very well for the denser timbers it may not work so well on very soft spongy sycamore, which I have sometimes come across and soft woods like cedar of lebanon.
The back bevel can sometimes be worked with a slipstone without removing the blades from the block, if you have an older english type machine. This bevel does not need to be wide. I think half a mm would be ample, possibly less.
I used this trick for about 25 years and it really works a treat. Very frustrated at the moment with a new euro machine with highly profiled quick change blades. They only protrude by about 1 mm and are almost impossible to modify. This advanced technology has moved my m/c planing finish back to the dark ages. I will change the machine as soon as time permits.
The only downside of this technique is greater power consumption and therefore possibly finer cuts.
I describe it on page 40 of my first book. and it is mentioned in the machining book by Nigel S.Voisey.
best wishes,
David Charlesworth
DaveL
Established Member
Reachs for said book as stuff read must of dropped out of memory and therefore needs to be refreshed. 8-[David C":r1lan49l said:
David C
In Memorium
Impatient to know whether Jacob is contemplating double bevel on his machine planer?
For that matter has anyone else benefited from this obscure, almost forgotten technique?
David C
For that matter has anyone else benefited from this obscure, almost forgotten technique?
David C
A
Anonymous
Guest
You must enter a message when posting
deirdre
Established Member
Ahh, Mr. C., I never thought to put a piece of paper under the heel or toe. Excellent tip. (I did otherwise set planes with a hard block of wood, so I already had that part down.)
bugbear
Established Member
David C":3c30fizq said:
And a wonderful demonstration of my claim that a wide blade is self-registering - a jig with only one asymmetrical wheel!
The modified Eclipse is reminiscent of the Kell (and shares a problem - you need a wide stone).
http://www.richardkell.co.uk/honingECom.htm
BugBear
Similar threads
