Scribing 'tolerance'

[AlexLC500]

Hello,

Apologies if this question seems a bit dumb or nit-picking, but I just wanted to make sure I've got something right (or not!).

I'm applying for a fitters job at Hammonds Bedrooms and they ask the question: "Are you able to perform a scribe, If so what tolerance do you aim for?"

Obviously I know what scribing is and yes I can do it with a reasonable level of competence, but what exactly do they mean by what tolerance do I aim for? Is this just asking how much of a gap or not do I aim to finish with against the wall / floor / ceiling surface? Is it that simple? I know everyone does things a bit differently, I'd have thought with natural wood finishes you'd want as close to no gap at all so 0mm, maybe allow 0.5mm approx for a painted finish that might be caulked or silicone sealed (not my choice by the way!). Am I misunderstanding anything here? I was always taught the even-ness / consistency of a panel gap or wall scribe was more important ultimately than the width of the gap, although the smaller the better. I'm just checking there's not some special fitters method or something that I've somehow missed? I've just never heard the word tolerance used in the context of scribing, cutting glass for window sashes perhaps, and probably dozens of other things but not scribing.

As I say apologies if this all sounds a bit dumb, but don't want to sound like a wally on the job application!

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[ChaiLatte]

I think what you say would be a good answer to give - that the consistency of the gap is more important than the absolute value of its width. Make the point that a gap that varies from 0.5mm to 2mm will look pants compared to something that is 1.5mm all the way.

You could also argue that in some situations (e.g a panel against a wall), too small a gap is counterproductive as it would prevent the caulk from doing its job - being compliant and accommodating any differential movement between masonry/plaster and wood. A zero width soft joint, when a soft joint is the correct solution in that area, is not a soft joint at all*.

The conclusion from that is it it meaningless to give a number because the appropriate number depends what is either side of the joint.

* tell that to every 'professional' tiler who grouts solid to the ceiling, solid to the floor and solid in the corners only for it to crack three days after final payment.

 

[AlexLC500]

I think what you say would be a good answer to give - that the consistency of the gap is more important than the absolute value of its width. Make the point that a gap that varies from 0.5mm to 2mm will look pants compared to something that is 1.5mm all the way.

You could also argue that in some situations (e.g a panel against a wall), too small a gap is counterproductive as it would prevent the caulk from doing its job - being compliant and accommodating any differential movement between masonry/plaster and wood. A zero width soft joint, when a soft joint is the correct solution in that area, is not a soft joint at all*.

The conclusion from that is it it meaningless to give a number because the appropriate number depends what is either side of the joint.

* tell that to every 'professional' tiler who grouts solid to the ceiling, solid to the floor and solid in the corners only for it to crack three days after final payment.

Thanks ChaiLatte, yes that's what I was thinking, you can't really give a number as there are many variables to consider.

 

[Amplidyne]

TBH, it sounds like a question that somebody in HR has dreamed up. Probably thinks "A scribe" is somebody who takes down the wise words of a king or something.

They're probably underemployed if they're listening for wise words. . .

I'd be tempted to say "I'd aim for thousandth of a millimetre tolerance" But I think I wouldn't get the job.
Strikes me that your, "0.5 to 0 mm but aiming at consistency of gap " is a sensible answer, and shows that you understand the problem. I doubt if many fitters achieve that though. "Trim, caulk and paint, make me the chippie I ain't" is probably nearer the reality.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think what you say would be a good answer to give - that the consistency of the gap is more important than the absolute value of its width. Make the point that a gap that varies from 0.5mm to 2mm will look pants compared to something that is 1.5mm all the way.

It it were 1.5mm all the way it would fit perfectly.

 

[Just4Fun]

I always aim for effectively zero gap in any work I do but my work is "just for fun" and I can take my time. Someone working professionally would definitely have to be quicker and might possibly have to accept a "near enough is good enough" approach. Time is money after all.
Also of course it can depend on how visible the scribe is. If it is at the back of a built-in and the only person who will ever see it is the guy who eventually rips it out at the end of its life, then what does it matter what the tolerance is? If it is the first thing you see on entering a room it had better be good quality.

 

[johnnyb]

Don't do it Hammond are a dreadful company. It will take 12 months or more to get fast enough to make a wage. At that point you'll be sick to death of the cock ups. A guy will phone you and he's what my dear departed dad would call a velvet glove Mon. Just there to cod you that it's all fine. Basically you'll be worse off than minimum wage! Check out that job review page. The guy was a total knob and he didn't like it when I told him. Always after fitters cos no one stays....

 

[johnnyb]

Every shelf needs scribing as they don't use internal carcases btw. You get a tiny percentage of the job (10% maybe more) so for a £5000 job you get £500.

 

[AlexLC500]

Every shelf needs scribing as they don't use internal carcases btw. You get a tiny percentage of the job (10% maybe more) so for a £5000 job you get £500.

Thanks for the info. I'm not that surprised if I'm honest, I have read a few negative reviews but I thought I might apply and see where I get with it. It wouldn't be full time for me as I make and sell small free standing furniture but sometimes I get driven mad not getting out enough! They're saying £300 - £320 per day potentially but I know you'd have to be super fast to actually achieve that. My biggest concern is about damaged or missing goods turning up and my time being wasted, but I thought as they'd advertised for fitters in my area (rural mid Wales) I thought I'd see what might come of it.

Out of interest do you know anything about Sharps bedrooms, are they any better?

 

[TheUnicorn]

that's an odd question, tolerence is obviously (as per chailatte) about consistency of spacing and not about the size of the gap, and asking what tolerence to AIM for seems ridiculously, you would obviously aim for absolute accuracy and therefore zero tolerance

 

[johnnyb]

They are about the same. Oddly I've applied twice like a numpty. 12 years apart(that's being forgetful for ya.)
I hate to burst your bubble tbh as it should be alright. But it's not. The answer to the scribe question is a compass but you'll get set on if you say a banana. It is possible to make money but it requires politics. So if you've bin there a while you'll get better jobs as long as your pliable. The new keen guys will get those tricky jobs. Very boring tbh.

 

[AlexLC500]

They are about the same. Oddly I've applied twice like a numpty. 12 years apart(that's being forgetful for ya.)
I hate to burst your bubble tbh as it should be alright. But it's not. The answer to the scribe question is a compass but you'll get set on if you say a banana. It is possible to make money but it requires politics. So if you've bin there a while you'll get better jobs as long as your pliable. The new keen guys will get those tricky jobs. Very boring tbh.

Thanks mate I appreciate the advice, I'm keeping my expectations realistic so we'll see what happens. I might not even qualify as they say you need a secure lockup within 25 miles of Hammonds Service Centre?! Guess they deliver the flat packs and fixings etc there instead of on site. I've read in the past that stuff regularly turns up damaged or missing or wrong dimensions etc, that's what put me off applying a few years ago. Maybe they've got their act together now, I'll report back either way!

 

[HOJ]

Will they give you a realistic OTE based on where you are, 1 job a week, month, year..

I've been on lots of sites, with Hammonds and Sharps fitters, they hardly have time to take a pee, to make it worthwhile, to be honest don't prostitute yourself if you can make a living with what you do now.

Surprised they want you to store, in my past experience everything was delivered to the room the day before.

I work on my own, it can be lonesome, but I am fortunate that I control my life and not being told what and when suits me.

 

[AlexLC500]

Will they give you a realistic OTE based on where you are, 1 job a week, month, year..

I've been on lots of sites, with Hammonds and Sharps fitters, they hardly have time to take a pee, to make it worthwhile, to be honest don't prostitute yourself if you can make a living with what you do now.

Surprised they want you to store, in my past experience everything was delivered to the room the day before.

I work on my own, it can be lonesome, but I am fortunate that I control my life and not being told what and when suits me.

Not sure what the store thing is about, guessing it's so they don't have to drive as far or maybe because damaged deliveries on site became too much of an issue, just guessing.

To be honest I was so surprised they advertised specifically in my area (rural mid Wales) we're in the middle of nowhere, I'm just intrigued to see what amount of work they've got to offer, could be new builds but they didn't specify needing all cordless kit which they usually do if it's new builds as there's no power supply.

It may not go anywhere but if they offer me something I'll probable give it a try and see how it goes...

 

[Bingy man]

Not sure what the store thing is about, guessing it's so they don't have to drive as far or maybe because damaged deliveries on site became too much of an issue, just guessing.

To be honest I was so surprised they advertised specifically in my area (rural mid Wales) we're in the middle of nowhere, I'm just intrigued to see what amount of work they've got to offer, could be new builds but they didn't specify needing all cordless kit which they usually do if it's new builds as there's no power supply.

It may not go anywhere but if they offer me something I'll probable give it a try and see how it goes...

It sounds like once the order is delivered you will be responsible for it , what is their definition of secure - 1 padlock or insurance approved locks ,, cctv with 24hr monitoring . A good employer pays their staff well and ensures you have what you need to complete your work . They want you to earn a good living as ghat means they in turn will do well .. at least you can go in with both eyes fully open .

 

[AlexLC500]

It sounds like once the order is delivered you will be responsible for it , what is their definition of secure - 1 padlock or insurance approved locks ,, cctv with 24hr monitoring . A good employer pays their staff well and ensures you have what you need to complete your work . They want you to earn a good living as ghat means they in turn will do well .. at least you can go in with both eyes fully open .

Thanks mate, thinking about it in the cold light of day I'll probable give them a call and question them, find out what I'm truly letting myself in for! Don't want to be liable for damage that someone else has caused.

 

[Bingy man]

100% - imagine you only get 2 or 3 jobs a year and the delivery once in you lock up ( secure unit ) is stolen / or lost in a fire . The customer could potentially claim against hammonds for breech of contract, loss of earnings and a lot of other expenses and you could be liable for the lot . I think your absolutely must get further information before you commit . The earlier posts that said they are not good to work for and the fitters don’t stay long -they are always looking for fitters is definitely not worth under estimating. And tbh whilst not wanting to put you off completely ( wales ?) how much of your day will you be travelling each way . So yeah just be careful and beware of the glossy magazines approach..

 

[AlexLC500]

100% - imagine you only get 2 or 3 jobs a year and the delivery once in you lock up ( secure unit ) is stolen / or lost in a fire . The customer could potentially claim against hammonds for breech of contract, loss of earnings and a lot of other expenses and you could be liable for the lot . I think your absolutely must get further information before you commit . The earlier posts that said they are not good to work for and the fitters don’t stay long -they are always looking for fitters is definitely not worth under estimating. And tbh whilst not wanting to put you off completely ( wales ?) how much of your day will you be travelling each way . So yeah just be careful and beware of the glossy magazines approach..

It's getting less and less appealing by the minute

Tbh I just want to find some fitting jobs where I can just be the fitter, do a good job and get paid a fair price without having to be the designer, the maker, the sprayer, the delivery driver and the aftersales guy. Maybe I'm being unrealistic and I've got my head in the clouds. I used to do it all myself but it nearly drove me to insanity with customers constantly changing their minds and having to constantly make little changes which all amounts to jobs going massively overtime and costing me. I actually really like fitting and if all the necessary components and fixings etc are all delivered by someone else and a proper drawing to work from, in theory that should be a really good job. But it seems most of these companies treat fitters not that well to say the least. There are a lot of negative reviews for all the well know fitted furniture companies.

 

[johnnyb]

Keep us posted and good luck with it.it pains me to see the substance of companies around these days tbh.

 

[Bingy man]

I suppose hammonds take the lions share , the fitter by comparison gets a small percentage but bears all the inconveniences and the unhappy customer that states “ but that’s not what I ordered or they did not explain this etc . any delays, damaged or missing items will affect your percentage. At least if you are working on your own design, and you have sourced the materials and of course surveyed t he job you have likely eliminated most of the potential problems and that only leaves the unseen/hidden problems and of course your customer ..