Screw and Plug Construction.

[Jelly]

I've been asked to make a small drinks cabinet for a friend (concept drawing), it's being made from locally sourced Douglas Fir, with a local slate insert in the top, and the cupboard shown will actually conceal a small fridge he already owns.

It was my intention to use a glued M&T construction (the frame will be 50*50 ex325 nominal), potentially using draw-bored joints for the lower cross members (which will bear the weight of the fridge). However, one of his housemates (who has a friend who fits kitchens) is mithering on about why don't I screw and plug it... I'm struggling to see the advantage to doing that to secure M&T joints which will be glued up anyway and have avoided asking if he's suggesting use concealed fixings and butt-joints instead of traditional joints, lest I start ranting.

I'm firmly of the opinion that well made joint with a tight mechanical interface should be more than sufficient for almost all furniture applications and that using metal fixings would be unnecessary and inelegant*; Am I missing something here or can I safely ask his housemate not to question my execution?

*Ok so if I screw and plug it well, no-one else will notice... But I'll know!

 

[barkwindjammer]

That looks a neat project, go for the mortise and tenon approach, why not use 'wedged' thru tenons-just to add some feature to it !

 

[RogerBoyle]

Sorry but with a house mate like that you are always going to be on a loser
He obviously is going to rubbish anything that you do and keep recommending his friend if you do not put him in his place before you start

Then go with the M&T approach if your friend still wants you to make it LOL

Good Luck

Roger

 

[Jelly]

That looks a neat project, go for the mortise and tenon approach, why not use 'wedged' thru tenons-just to add some feature to it !

I don't think that will work for the three-way joints... But :idea: there are two more cross-members underneath* to help support the fridge better, where the extra strength would be nice and they won't be as obtrusive on the sides as they might be on the front, a quiet nod to my craftsmanship (and if I execute them well, the quality thereof too!).
*(and thus not shown by any of the projections in my concept drawing...)

Sorry but with a house mate like that you are always going to be on a loser
He obviously is going to rubbish anything that you do and keep recommending his friend if you do not put him in his place before you start
Then go with the M&T approach if your friend still wants you to make it LOL

I kind of expected as much; The irritating bit is he's not trying to generate work for his friend, Simply trying to tell me how to do it! More pertinently it's too late for my friend to back out now, I've sawn the seasoned timber to width and got it in the back of my car to go get acclimatised in the corner of his (self styled) attic "man cave"...

 

[James-1986]

Someone always has to stick their oar in!

I bet this housemate couldn't put his hands together for prayer, crack on with the mortice and tenons

 

[RogerBoyle]

With a house mate like that who needs enemies LOL
Ask him why he recommends the screw approach then shoot him down with facts
Such as Wood moves over time the screws will back off you then need to remove the plugs retighten and then refinish the project again or wwould you rather it be done with M&T joints which will allow the wood to move but still remain intact

And if he still keeps up about the screws throw him out the window LOL

 

[Jelly]

Whilst I'm here, what are appropriate uses for screw and plug techniques?

 

[RogerBoyle]

Attaching battons /rails for shelfs and simple joinery like that

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Whilst I'm here, what are appropriate uses for screw and plug techniques?

Stuff with a relatively short design life - like fitted kitchens. They're not expected to last more than ten years - half-decent furniture is expected to last a lot longer than that.

 

[Racers]

Whilst I'm here, what are appropriate uses for screw and plug techniques?

Stuff with a relatively short design life - like fitted kitchens. They're not expected to last more than ten years - half-decent furniture is expected to last a lot longer than that.

+1

My thoughts exactly.

Pete

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Attaching battons /rails for shelfs and simple joinery like that

Only when you're screwing into long grain, not into end-grain. The screws may hold initially but are likely to lose their grip with time.

Nick

 

[RogerBoyle]

Attaching battons /rails for shelfs and simple joinery like that

Only when you're screwing into long grain, not into end-grain. The screws may hold initially but are likely to lose their grip with time.

Nick

Correct

 

[Steve Maskery]

Ah, but.
Whilst I agree with just about everything above, there is at least one application of screwing into endgrain and plugging it which works very well indeed, even in difficult situations.
Take my dining chairs for example:

The back seat rail is screwed in place with four long screws that are then plugged. After 16 years there is zero sign of deterioration. My fantastic idea? I wish. It's how Sam Maloof used to screw his chairs together. And quite frankly, if it is good enough for SM it is good enough for SM (I never realised before that we had the same initials )
OK I do admit it does rely on good modern-design screws (in this case Spax), rather than traditional ones. But it does go to show.
S

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Ah, but.
Whilst I agree with just about everything above, there is at least one application of screwing into endgrain and plugging it which works very well indeed, even in difficult situations.
Take my dining chairs for example:

The back seat rail is screwed in place with four long screws that are then plugged. After 16 years there is zero sign of deterioration. My fantastic idea? I wish. It's how Sam Maloof used to screw his chairs together. And quite frankly, if it is good enough for SM it is good enough for SM (I never realised before that we had the same initials )
OK I do admit it does rely on good modern-design screws (in this case Spax), rather than traditional ones. But it does go to show.
S

Fair point. There's very little stress on that joint, and to paraphrase Orwell: "Rather break all rules than make something outright barbarous." Must have made assembly much simpler.