Scraper- Stanley 80 or other

[marcros]

I have a bench top to finish (as in a dining room bench to sit on), but the scale of my usual projects is smaller- boxes etc.

I would like to invest in a scraping tool, but am not sure what to go for. The time served option seems to be a Stanley 80, but is this the best bet?

Other options are https://www.fine-tools.com/G307923.html the veritas version of the 80.
A card scraper and https://www.fine-tools.com/G10004.html#ziel307961
a small scraper plane https://www.fine-tools.com/scrapingplane.html

Any thoughts? is a scraped surface superior to one that is sanded to a suitable grit?

 

[sploo]

The #80 is very good for larger areas; though I find it can sometimes be finicky to set up "just right". If you have a set of well sharpened card scrapers then just using them by hand (swapping between each scraper as one gets hot) may well be easier/faster than trying to source and set up a #80.

If you're going to apply a finish then I would usually gently sand it (for keying) anyway - though I much prefer to scrape first then sand as you can remove more material quickly, and obviously there's much less dust.

If there's already a coating of some sort on the bench then scraping is usually even better (as sandpaper tends to clog up quickly with an old finish).

 

[marcros]

it is new timber at the moment, and will have either a wipe on varnish or Osmo as a finish, so might require a key. I fancy a hand tool to avoid dust, cables etc.

"well sharpened" is another challenge in itself! the 80 and similar looks easier to sharpen, from what I have seen on youtube, but I guess there sharpening a card scraper is just a matter of learning the skill and practicing.

what card scrapers do you use/prefer? thick, thin, mid, super hard, etc

 

[sploo]

what card scrapers do you use/prefer? thick, thin, mid, super hard, etc

Yes

:wink:

Thin ones are great for bending slightly, thicker ones are good for thinner widths of stock (where the sharp corners of the scraper aren't over the stock). I find the thicker ones can occasionally catch a corner on a wider piece of stock so I prefer something with just a little bit of flex.

For sharpening - just use a stone/diamond plate/sandpaper on glass and ensure the edge and both faces by that edge are smooth and have no burrs. Then drag a burnisher (you can even use a screwdriver shaft - it just needs to be hard steel) along the edge, whilst drawing it slightly across the edge and pressing down - think like you're trying to drag a bit of material off the edge; such that when you're done the edge would have gone from a capital 'I' to a capital 'T' (the burr you've dragged off either side will be tiny, but you should be able to feel it).

The scraper should then take nice shavings - not dust.

Note though - if it's new timber, then a sharp hand plane should get it close enough that just a light key sanding is needed - rarely any need to scrape. Unless maybe if the timber has some very rippled grain and tears with a plane.

 

[marcros]

The options just became a bit more experimental.

I have found some bits that I have bought previously.

A selection of thicknesses of card scraper.
The Veritas variable burnisher for sharpening them.
The 2 pieces below. Are these a primitive version of the 80?I had thought they were spokeshaves but I doubt that now.

I note what you say about a sharp plane- another thing to try.

 

[sploo]

They do look like spokeshaves to me.

 

[MusicMan]

I like the Stanley 80 very much, on new or already-finished wood. Grind at 45 deg then burnish a hook (same as for cards) on the opposite side to the bevel (and put this facing away from you when you hold the plane so that the lettering STANLEY is the right way up.

I do use cards as well but usually for areas I can't get to with the no. 80.

 

[woodbloke66]

The Veritas Cabinet Scraper is an improved version of the original Stanley No.80, in that it has a bigger sole. It does though, have quite a small cutter which makes it difficult to hold for grinding at 45deg so I've replaced the original with a thick card scraper blade that I've cut to the correct width.
I grind the blade at about 30deg (not crucial) and then hone at 45deg in the Veritas Mk2 gauge on 3M films. I don't turn a hook as it seems to work well without it.
Both the Stanley and newer Veritas version are excellent tools and can be recommended - Rob

 

[marcros]

are there any others in the 80 pattern, besides the Stanley, record and veritas? I see that there are some very cheap ones that are probably best avoided.

 

[MusicMan]

The Stanley crops up on eBay from time to time. I got mine there (from a retired carpenter who even sharpened it before sending) for £30 about 3 years ago. No experience of the cheap ones, sorry, but worst case you could replace the blade.

I wouldn't want a longer sole than the 80, as if the wood is not dead flat, for example antiques restoration, a long sole will try to flatten it, hence preferentially take off the bumps, whereas a shorter sole follows the waves of the surface (which are imperceptible unless you are doing metrology!). If you are making a billiard table then maybe.

 

[woodbloke66]

are there any others in the 80 pattern, besides the Stanley, record and veritas? I see that there are some very cheap ones that are probably best avoided.

I think most tool manufacturers have done a version of the No.80 at some point as it's a good and time proven design. Ax do their own version but I've never used one, so couldn't recommend it, but it's probably OK if you get a decent cutter, emphasis on 'decent'. I've used both the Stanley as well as the Veritas which I prefer as it seems to have a better 'feel' to it, but it does cost three times as much as the Ax one (that's if my sums is correct ) Horses for wotsits, as ever- Rob

 

[profchris]

The options just became a bit more experimental.

I have found some bits that I have bought previously.

A selection of thicknesses of card scraper.
The Veritas variable burnisher for sharpening them.
The 2 pieces below. Are these a primitive version of the 80?I had thought they were spokeshaves but I doubt that now.


I note what you say about a sharp plane- another thing to try.

I'd say those are wooden no. 80 equivalents. The blade is flat like a scraper, and is at near enough 90 degrees to the sole.

Try one out. True up and sharpen the blade, reinsert it from the base of the tool (so as not to damage the cutting edge), set it so it doesn't protrude at all and try it. It may cut even if the blade is apparently level with the sole! If not, tap gently to advance the blade and try again. You don't want any appreciable amount of blade protruding, or the thing will chatter. If it doesn't work, try the blade as a hand scraper.

I find angling the scraper plane sometimes gives best results.

 

[will1983]

I have the Axminster rider no80. It's very good but then I do ensure that I turn a burr onto the blade after sharpening it.

It's particularly good for knocking down hardened lumps of glue that I missed when cleaning up the squeeze out.

EDIT: +1 for angling the scraper plane if dealing with something hard to cut.

 

[ED65]

is a scraped surface superior to one that is sanded to a suitable grit?

If the sanding is done well nobody can tell them apart. People will argue this till the cows come home but this gets tested in practice all the time and the jury is in.

That's not to say don't scrape or prefer to, it's so much better than sanding in so many ways But if you have power sanders and good dust extraction there's no reason not to use them.

The need for keying wood for a finish to be able to bond is a largely a myth, because of its microstructure wood is basically already rough. Penetrating finishes in particular, but not exclusively, are regularly put onto planed surfaces which are the epitome of glass smooth (think Japanese work).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/kunz ... 2943792780

Pretty colour if nothing else.

 

[sploo]

https://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/kunz-cabinet-scraper-no-80?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=42943792780

Pretty colour if nothing else.

Sellers indicated it needed some fettling first: https://paulsellers.com/2015/12/kunzcabinet-scraper-80/

 

[memzey]

The 112 is also a good tool, although I think both it and the 80 are best for large surfaces. For me anything small gets done with a hand/cabinet scraper.

 

[thetyreman]

I think the veritas one is excellent, I had a vintage stanley no80 before that, still good, wish I'd have just kept it to be honest and had two so that there's less sharpening, both did the same job, the veritas one has more mass though and feels a bit more comfortable.

 

[StraightOffTheArk]

I've had both a Stanley and Record and they were excellent - the only problem was that as I didn't use them very often, I would sell them so as to buy something of more immediate use, in the end I made one based on Charles Haywood's 'How to Make Woodwork Tools' and it's proved very effective.

Tara a bit,

SOTA

 

[marcros]

I treated myself to the Veritas version. The reasonable condition Stanleys and Records were fetching 40 quid plus on eBay, and I managed to get a used Veritas for a tenner more. I would have been happy with any of the three but I have a soft spot for Veritas because the bits of theirs that I have do seem an improvement on the originals.

Hopefully I will give it a test drive this weekend. It feels like a quality bit of kit anyway.