Scheppach Tiger 2000

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scooby

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I'm considering getting one of these but having no used one before (same goes for Tormek, Jet, etc) I don't know much about them. Before I get one ordered would anyone be able to answer questions please?

1. How difficult is to set the blade/chisel, etc to the correct angle (and sqare) on the jig?
2. How do you use the leather wheel? Is it a case of using the jig the jig to polish the bevel and the side of the wheel to polish the chisel back?
Used with the wheel turning away from the tool edge I presume?
3. I don't think Scheppach sell a truing tool, would the Tormek one fit and is it difficult to get the stone flat?
 
MTS power tools, I think, ~150 quid

*Edit* sorry, this is all about the 10" grinder....

Was in same boat as youself till a few days ago. I already had one of those Rexon horizontal wet grinders, which I use for honing up P/T knives - does this well. Would also be OK for carving tools, as the Japanese style waterstone wheel is very soft. However it's not very rigid, you need to be gentle with it.

The new Scheppach makes very short work of even wide HSS blades - the first job was the knives from the garden shredder (4" HSS). If you don't like honing guides, the hollow grind makes freehand sharpening on a standard Japanese waterstone very easy (always used a guide before).

I don't think the leather wheel will be much use for chisels and plane blades, but I expect carvers and turners like it. You can get an add on small shaped leather wheel as an acessory. I bet someone else will say the exact opposite...

DC mentioned one of his students having a little accident trying to flatten backs on the side of the wheel. Quite difficult to dress this flat, so best forgotten, I think. The wheel edge is easily dressed with a diamond, Scheppach and the other all sell one - should be in the basic kit as wheel dressing is the first job to do.

As you have to slide blades from side to side (narrow ones to prevent stone wear, and wide ones to grind the corners) flat is a bit relative, especially if your last blade had a good bit of camber on it. However if you go on to a 1200 and 8000 waterstone or similar to hone, you can check for straightness or curvature then as you need it.

The Tormek bearings are a bit more robust and suited to a very busy workshop, but for all that the Sheppach is carefully made, very much better than DIY quality (wt ~30lbs). Looks cnc cut with varoius notches to accurately align bent parts before welding. It has lighter bearings than the Tormek, and no stainless steel, but quite adequate for a small workshop, especilly if used for grinding primary bevels only. Say 'trade', but not 'industrial'. It is very rigid, and has a proper induction motor. Soluble cutting oil will prevent corrosion.

The supplied blade holder will take very wide blades, like a scraper plane blade, unlike the Tormek. A 90 deg. setting is automatic. The supplied angle setting gauge is a bit too simple as it doesn't alow for wheel wear, but aking your own is also quite easy. If you're just grinding the primary bevel, the exact angle doesn't matter all that much anyway. As far as I know all the varoius makes of guides will fit each other's grinder; I hope to mix and match there.

For grinding 1 man's blades, I thought the Tormek just too expensive. The Jet appeared to be priced so as to just cut under the Tormek, as was the Scheppach before the recent price drop. Previously a bit overpriced, the current £150 looks about right.

One point, have a look at the post in 'General Woodworking' on 'the best way to use Tormek etc' as I found the vertical wet wheel rather messy when grinding blades wider than the 2" wheel. Sems this is best done with the wheel rotating away from the blade, not towards it, as the manual says. You can download a Tormek manual from their website, which may be helpful.

Hope this helps a bit.
 
Phew! - that's the one with 8" wheel, I regret to confess I have been scribbling about the 10" version, apologies!
 
I got mine from MTS power tools. I find it works well and puts a very good edge on my chisels. I do have the problem with the water run off with wider chisels but that may be my technique. All of the Tormek accessories fit it too which is a big plus. :wink:
 
ivan":23t02vod said:
One point, have a look at the post in 'General Woodworking' on 'the best way to use Tormek etc' as I found the vertical wet wheel rather messy when grinding blades wider than the 2" wheel. Sems this is best done with the wheel rotating away from the blade, not towards it, as the manual says. You can download a Tormek manual from their website, which may be helpful.

Hope this helps a bit.

Sorry this is not correct at all.

Wheel running towards you to grind and sharpen, then hone away from you on the leather wheel. The later corrections to this post denied the messy issue entirely.

Have you seen our manual? It would certainly help you understand why the Tormek system. The website has videos too.

Martin
 
well i have used all three, and the tormek is far superier in my veiw, the saying, you get what you pay for, in my opinion is jutified in this case. just my two penneth.
 
Martin,

It wan't me who suggested that Tormek / Sheppach etc wet grinders should be used in a 'trailing' mode. Indeed, I wrote that both handbooks recommended grinding with the wheel running into the blade. However...
In another thread, where I pointed out that water runs everywhere in this mode, a lot of other users said they had the same problem (with Tormek too) and had changed to the trailing mode, and said I should do likewise. I did have a good look at the Tormek website and manual.pdf - it was here I saw the suggestion to tip the machine sideways a little so run off from wide blades trickled back onto the wheel, and did not run over the metal housing. So there you have it; Tormek themselves say water runs off wide blades. Unfortunately if you follow this advice, the water then runs all over your table!

My first impression of the machine was, that the designer had never attempted to grind an edge that was wider than the wheel, in the manual-recommended way. If you do, water ends up over and in the metal case, and all over your bench. Grinding two 4" HSS shredder blades rendered two handtowels sopping wet (requiring trough top ups). The wheel was dipping about 5-8mm into the water once fully soaked.

Advice to prevent this would be most welcome! A piece of industrial brush strip draught excluder to remove some of the water on the wheel surface might do the trick.

The going rate for a Sheppach 2500, the 10" model, is about £150 (depends exactly on carriage) I think it is reasonable value at this price, and as far as I could see from trying all in turn, just as effective at grinding as its more expensive cousins. The Tormek will last longer before service is needed, but at a very much higher price that for me, in a 1 man workshop is not justifiied. (the £125 difference buys an awful lot of bronze bushes) Scheppach wearing parts are easy to fit and inexpensive. The Scheppach guide will take the widest blade, ~3". I will try some Tormek/Jet acessories, however.
 
ivan":2kwofc94 said:
Martin,

It wan't me who suggested that Tormek / Sheppach etc wet grinders should be used in a 'trailing' mode. Indeed, I wrote that both handbooks recommended grinding with the wheel running into the blade. However...
In another thread, where I pointed out that water runs everywhere in this mode, a lot of other users said they had the same problem (with Tormek too) and had changed to the trailing mode, and said I should do likewise. I did have a good look at the Tormek website and manual.pdf - it was here I saw the suggestion to tip the machine sideways a little so run off from wide blades trickled back onto the wheel, and did not run over the metal housing. So there you have it; Tormek themselves say water runs off wide blades. Unfortunately if you follow this advice, the water then runs all over your table!

"Water running everywhere" is not my experience. Come and watch at demo some time. The Tormek advice is still correct for wider planer blades but not required for hand planes. You do get water on the bench but not so much. Maybe you are traversing too slowly.

ivan":2kwofc94 said:
My first impression of the machine was, that the designer had never attempted to grind an edge that was wider than the wheel, in the manual-recommended way.

If you knew the amount time Torgny of Tormek has spent designing/working this system (essentiallyy a life of work) you would understand why that this is just a great injustice. I have never met someone so passionate about something. We work with 20 manufacturers and their intensity of research is beyond reproach.

ivan":2kwofc94 said:
If you do, water ends up over and in the metal case, and all over your bench. Grinding two 4" HSS shredder blades rendered two handtowels sopping wet (requiring trough top ups). The wheel was dipping about 5-8mm into the water once fully soaked.

I have never experienced this quantity of water and am struggling to explain why it happening to you. Sound like we need to meet at a show sometime so I can see where you are going wrong.

ivan":2kwofc94 said:
Advice to prevent this would be most welcome! A piece of industrial brush strip draught excluder to remove some of the water on the wheel surface might do the trick.

Again, in my view just not required.

ivan":2kwofc94 said:
The going rate for a Sheppach 2500, the 10" model, is about £150 (depends exactly on carriage) I think it is reasonable value at this price, and as far as I could see from trying all in turn, just as effective at grinding as its more expensive cousins. The Tormek will last longer before service is needed, but at a very much higher price that for me, in a 1 man workshop is not justifiied. (the £125 difference buys an awful lot of bronze bushes)

It is not just the bushes that are different.

Are you coming to a show? Your entrance fee is on us.

Martin
 
ivan, we have all had problems with water flow when we buy any of these kinds of machines.

it is impossible and unreasonable to think that at a price we want to pay, a manufacturer will cover all the problems we might experience.

however the simple answer is to make sure the wheel is wet, and then reduce the water level in the tray until the wheel is only just running about 1/8th below the water, this certainly reduces most spill problems.

i have found that in principal after that, the water only runs off when i take the tool off the stone :?

anyway i certainly have found my tormek worth the investment

paul :wink:
 
Just an afterthought to the above.

We are a little at cross purposes. When grinding plane irons and chisels the run off is quite minimal, whilst it is more with planer blades. The longer they are the more the run off. 40" blades do make a mess for example.

Martin
 
40", Martin? Didn't know yours was that big....

Agreed, chisels etc no problem; the odd drip, and not by any means a mess. Hence, ideal for carvers and turners. Similar with a 2" plane blade. If you're careful surface tension 'sticks' the water to blade and wheel as you slide the blade to ensure an even grind. Wider than this, the water goes walkabout.

Regarding the manufacturer's attention to this problem: Ignored by Sheppach. Jet appear to have noticed this, and provided a much wider trough, looks at least twice as wide. Tormek's solution appears to be a new top-of-the-range model with a 3" wide wheel. Mine will involve some 3mm ABS sheet and glue.

Taking account of their price points, I'm sure all three are good machines, two of which could do with a wider trough for those of us who haven't a workshop sink and drainer!
 
3" wheel? That is not correct. You may be repeating a catalogue mistake.

Tormek enlarged their trough about 5 years ago. No drainer required. We don't take one when we demonstrate.

Unlimited length of blades can be sharpened.

Martin
 
From the current Tormek manual:

Tips:
The water tends to follow the blade to its ends. If you raise the
honing wheel side approx 6 mm (¼") by placing a spacer under
that side of the machine, the water will fl ow away from the honing
wheel. Use a tray or newspaper to collect the water which may run
outside the water trough.
 
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