Scheppach HMS 260 (new to me) - Cutter Block Problems

[pe2dave]

If you don't have the means to (accurately) measure side to side height differences, pm me. I have a pair of devices from my Scheppach 260 I no longer use.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Assuming you sort out any problems you have with the wedges, knife height adjusters and wedge locking bolts, no-one has yet mentioned that with planer/thicknessers settings start with ensuring all is set as it should be for thicknessing rather than for surface planing. This means getting the infeed and outfeed rollers, the chip breaker, pressure bar and anti-kickback fingers set correctly in relation to the cutter block and the projection of the knives. The starting point is setting the knife projection from the circumference of the cutter block correctly. Not all machines have all of the parts I've just mentioned. After getting that lot set up, which is normally a one-off task, or at least a very seldom undertaken task, the outfeed table of the surface planing part is set to the correct tangent line in relation to the projecting knives. Fitting replacement knives subsequently should be easily achieved through the stick dragging method others have described, or with use of magnetic type knife setting jigs.

I offer the above in case you find later, after you've got things set up as you think they should be working just from the outfeed surface planing table as others have described, you experience problems with the thicknessing function, e.g., severe snipe, poor feeding, and so on. If that's the case, it may be the thicknessing set up needs looking at. I'm not familiar with that particular machine, so if there are problems you might need to contact Scheppach for their specifications, e.g., the requisite knife projection from the cutter block. Hopefully the machine is basically as it should be and it will both plane and thickness successfully with no more than fitting new or sharpened knives. Slainte.

 

[recipio]

Thanks very much When you say to lift the blades with a screwdriver, how are you doing that exactly, are you using the small gap beneath the very end of the blades?

Yes, start with one end a little high and tap the blade down until you get the blade ' kissing ' or just touching a batten on the outfeed table. Then insert the screwdriver under the blade at the opposite end and raise gently until you get the blade to just touch the batten. Rotate the block back and forth until you feel the blade just touching - machine plugged out of course. Tighten all the bolts until the block is ' nipped up '. It's a bit fiddly but once set set up it lasts until the next sharpening. I find this eliminates snipe completely even if it's not quite what the manual recommends.

 

[Andy's Shed]

If you don't have the means to (accurately) measure side to side height differences, pm me. I have a pair of devices from my Scheppach 260 I no longer use.

Thanks Dave.

Assuming you sort out any problems you have with the wedges, knife height adjusters and wedge locking bolts, no-one has yet mentioned that with planer/thicknessers settings start with ensuring all is set as it should be for thicknessing rather than for surface planing. This means getting the infeed and outfeed rollers, the chip breaker, pressure bar and anti-kickback fingers set correctly in relation to the cutter block and the projection of the knives. The starting point is setting the knife projection from the circumference of the cutter block correctly. Not all machines have all of the parts I've just mentioned. After getting that lot set up, which is normally a one-off task, or at least a very seldom undertaken task, the outfeed table of the surface planing part is set to the correct tangent line in relation to the projecting knives. Fitting replacement knives subsequently should be easily achieved through the stick dragging method others have described, or with use of magnetic type knife setting jigs.

I offer the above in case you find later, after you've got things set up as you think they should be working just from the outfeed surface planing table as others have described, you experience problems with the thicknessing function, e.g., severe snipe, poor feeding, and so on. If that's the case, it may be the thicknessing set up needs looking at. I'm not familiar with that particular machine, so if there are problems you might need to contact Scheppach for their specifications, e.g., the requisite knife projection from the cutter block. Hopefully the machine is basically as it should be and it will both plane and thickness successfully with no more than fitting new or sharpened knives. Slainte.

Blimey, it's sounding more and more complicated. What have I let myself in for!

The previous owner told me that he only really used this Scheppach for thicknessing and that he had done any planing on a 1.4 metre wide machine. He's sold most of gear due to having to move house. I'm hoping that the thicknessing will be OK but I haven't tried it at this stage.

Yes, start with one end a little high and tap the blade down until you get the blade ' kissing ' or just touching a batten on the outfeed table. Then insert the screwdriver under the blade at the opposite end and raise gently until you get the blade to just touch the batten. Rotate the block back and forth until you feel the blade just touching - machine plugged out of course. Tighten all the bolts until the block is ' nipped up '. It's a bit fiddly but once set set up it lasts until the next sharpening. I find this eliminates snipe completely even if it's not quite what the manual recommends.

Thank you. I'm going to take another look at the wedges and screws and decide what to do from there. There's definitely 1 screw head that isn't visible, but I don't know for sure if the screw is just missing or if the head has been sheared off. I'll check the 2 screws that I 'think' may be stripped too.

 

[Andy's Shed]

I've just had another quick look at the planer and actually the broken clamp bolt and the two spinning clamp bolts are all next to each other on the same side of the cutting block, for some reason I thought one side had a broken bolt and the spinning bolts were on the other side. That's good news as I only need to buy one replacement v-clamp as opposed to two!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Blimey, it's sounding more and more complicated. What have I let myself in for!

Hopefully nothing more complex than than getting the stripped threaded parts sorted or replaced, and then fitting new blades.

I provided the additional information in case you found the machine's thicknessing settings had been messed up by the previous owner. Slainte.

 

[rogxwhit]

Is it possible that the screws you're calling 'stripped' are also sheared but still captive? Whichever, if you can't release the wedge, a precise bit of surgery on those screws might be necessary. I'm thinking in terms of a freehand grinder with a thin cutting disc, and it depends how confident you are about your aim. The priority would be to preserve the cutterblock at all costs. Safety goggles would be a must. That would be my method. A more tedious answer could be a fresh hacksaw blade. The wedge might be re-usable if you can excavate the screw remains and run a tap through to clean the internal threads, though it looks a bit chewed where the screw has broken & might be better renewed ...

 

[Andy's Shed]

Hopefully nothing more complex than than getting the stripped threaded parts sorted or replaced, and then fitting new blades.

I provided the additional information in case you found the machine's thicknessing settings had been messed up by the previous owner. Slainte.

Yes, I have a sneaking suspicion that I might just be adding to this thread in the future

Is it possible that the screws you're calling 'stripped' are also sheared but still captive? Whichever, if you can't release the wedge, a precise bit of surgery on those screws might be necessary. I'm thinking in terms of a freehand grinder with a thin cutting disc, and it depends how confident you are about your aim. The priority would be to preserve the cutterblock at all costs. Safety goggles would be a must. That would be my method. A more tedious answer could be a fresh hacksaw blade. The wedge might be re-usable if you can excavate the screw remains and run a tap through to clean the internal threads, though it looks a bit chewed where the screw has broken & might be better renewed ...

Oddly enough I did begin to wonder how I'd get the wedge out if the bolts were stuck there, I was kind of hoping that if I could at least remove the blade then the wedge might have more wiggle room. I don't have a grinder but I do have one if those Dremmel clones and I think it might have a couple of very thin grinding discs with it, if I recall correctly they don't look up to much though.

Either way I'll try and remove the blade first and take it from there. Fingers crossed as the price of a new cutter head would be too expensive.

 

[Housey210]

The wedge should come out, when all bolts backed off. The bolts back out with the head exerting pressure on the blade to hold firm. Once out I would persevere in trying to get the broken bolt out. Heat up with blow torch, penetrating fluid or dill hole and use an easi out. I certainly would not tap to bigger size for the same reason as previously mentioned, balance. If stripped, as you say, then there looks to be enough space between head of bolt and wedge to get a thin cutting disc in to cut all heads off. Perhaps new wedges are stll available?

 

[Andy's Shed]

The wedge should come out, when all bolts backed off. Once out I would persevere in trying to get the broken bolt out. Heat up with blow torch, penetrating fluid or dill hole and use an easi out. I certainly would not tap to bigger size for the same reason as previously mentioned, balance.

I zoomed in on the photo of the broken bolt, it looks as though an attempt has been made to drill it out? Either way I'll have a go at getting that wedge out tomorrow.

 

[Deadeye]

Apologies, but are you certain you are turning the square heads the right way? Look at the diagram on p.14
If you do need to redrill and retap, it's not hard - I had to do the same on my renovation (with advice from here). The heli coil works perfectly. I don't find a balance issue but do one each side if you're worried.

 

[rogxwhit]

I was kind of hoping that if I could at least remove the blade then the wedge might have more wiggle room.

Yes, I see that you're on the case ...!

 

[Housey210]

Struggling to understand how any of the bolts have stripped as they would be loose, not exerting pressure onto blade. Wedge looks caked with resin so perhaps that has seeped into threads gumming the bolt causing the shear. I had my own joinery shop, 16 and 12 inch dominon p/t's and 24 inch stand alone thicknesser. Softwood was the issue and after every long run I would squirt a resin cleaner onto blades/ wedges, leave to soak and wipe resin off. Same with rip / band saws and tenoner. Spindle tooling problematic with allen set clamps so I just left the block in a bath of neat cleaner. At each cutter change I would remove all bolts and clean holes with the cleaner. 1 x 25ltr drum every year though be aware, some can remove paint. The bolts are not standard, square head for pressure area and relief cut at thread with underside of head. £8 each for mine so use the right spanner!

 

[Andy's Shed]

I tried turning the stripped bolts in both directions and they just span round endlessly,

I've managed to remove the blade and the wedge after cutting the 2 bolt heads off with my Dremel type grinding disc tool. That's a relief.

I don't have any Easy Out tools so I need to buy them, but I think I need to find out if I'm able to buy a set of replacement clamp bolts first. I know that Scheppach supply them with the replacement v-clamps, but they don't appear to sell just the bolts.

I think the bolts are nearer to M5 in size, approx 5mm width and just under 13mm in length.

I'm wondering if I should just order a replacement v-clamp for 40 Euros plus postage and it'll come with the bolts, the cost of buying some easy outs and then the price of the bolts (if available) might not make it viable.


EDIT: If they are M5, would these be fit for purpose?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-bzp-steel-set-screws-m5-x-12mm-100-pack/5738h?_requestid=183994

 

[Doug71]

Not sure if they are the same size (and not near me to check) but I got some replacement bolts for an Axminster AW106pt PT direct from Axminster. They were only a few pence each and with me next day.

 

[scholar]

If you contact NMA Tools, who are the main UK distributor for Scheppach, they will tell you if the replacement parts are available - [email protected]

They may also have a copy of the manual and various workshop guides on how to replace or recalibrate things.

For parts it will probably be Richard you deal with - I cannot speak highly enough of their customer service over many years.

For any parts like these on a fast spinny machine, I would ensure that everything was correct, standard and clean.

Cheers

 

[Andy's Shed]

If you contact NMA Tools, who are the main UK distributor for Scheppach, they will tell you if the replacement parts are available - [email protected]

They may also have a copy of the manual and various workshop guides on how to replace or recalibrate things.

For parts it will probably be Richard you deal with - I cannot speak highly enough of their customer service over many years.

For any parts like these on a fast spinny machine, I would ensure that everything was correct, standard and clean.

Cheers

I've just spoken to Phil in the parts department and the bolts aren't listed as an item, no dimensions etc for them. He suggested that I just go and buy some hex bolts of the same size and use those. I asked if they needed to be high tensile and he just said that there doesn't appear to be anything special about them.

 

[Housey210]

The joys of buying used! I personally would, from looking at the work involved and mess of bolt heads, bite the bullet and get the kit from the main dealer. Two or three knife block and is the price for all? The machined relief at the underside of head is there for a reason as too the square head. Buy some resin remover and clean the new ones after each use and bolt holes at change of blades. Get the right spanner if they sell that too.

 

[Andy's Shed]

The joys of buying used! I personally would, from looking at the work involved and mess of bolt heads, bite the bullet and get the kit from the main dealer. Two or three knife block and is the price for all? The machined relief at the underside of head is there for a reason as too the square head. Buy some resin remover and clean the new ones after each use and bolt holes at change of blades. Get the right spanner if they sell that too.

It's 40 Euros for a single v-clamp with the 5 screws included, at least the German website says 'Mit Schraube' which translates to With Screw. The blades aren't part of the kit. The v-clamp screws on the opposite side seem to be fine, they tighten as expected so I should only need the single kit.

 

[rogxwhit]

I'd be somewhat wary of sourcing a single wedge bar in that you don't know for sure how consistent their manufacturing was, and you want to avoid a weight discrepancy. I would at least, if I had an accurate scales (I haven't!), weigh them to see how they tallied. If one was heavier it could be judiciously relieved. But ideally I'd source a pair. They seem expensive though relative to the value of the machine, so maybe your first strategy should be to try and rescue what you have.