Saw blade

[steve355]

Oh no, disaster.

Just sharpened my little dovetail saw, cutting beautifully, slipped out of my hand and dropped on the concrete floor :-(

150 years and an silly person like me comes along and wrecks it.

Anyone know a good source of suitable spring steel?

(Un)Happy new year
Steve

 

[Jameshow]

That chap on eBay mentioned recently....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12526828...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Argus]

Shame, that.

I suppose that you have two possible options...... new saw plate?

As far as I recall, other than individuals, there is only one saw-maker firm still in action in this country, Flinn in Sheffield. They were able to let me have a spare plate that I re-worked, though that was quite a few years, nay, many ago....... not sure if they still do but may be worth a phone call.

https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/
Alternatively, buy a new or second hand saw with a good plate and do a swap.

Either way you may need to do some re-cutting and sharpening.

Some interlocking rubber mats may be a good idea too!

Good luck...... let us know how you get on.

 

[steve355]

Spring steel

eBay link

I wonder if that would be ok? (No it’s CS95 steel which is too hard, needs to be CS80)

Luckily I have a little milling machine which will make it a much easier job than it could be for 22 TPI or whatever it is. I can put some accurate nicks in the edge and then sharpen as usual. And perhaps some gun blue to make it look natural.

 

[clogs]

blade n brass backing fit.....is a wack with a mallet job.....?

 

[Jameshow]

Spring steel

eBay link

I wonder if that would be ok? (No it’s CS95 steel which is too hard, needs to be CS80)

Luckily I have a little milling machine which will make it a much easier job than it could be for 22 TPI or whatever it is. I can put some accurate nicks in the edge and then sharpen as usual. And perhaps some gun blue to make it look natural.

I could be wrong but I think it's probably too thick?

 

[steve355]

I could be wrong but I think it's probably too thick?

That one yes, the dovetail saw has 0.020” / 0.5 mm

 

[Fitzroy]

I used steel from the same eBay vendor to make a frame saw blade before Xmas. It was not too hard to work. However 1.2mm is too thick I think. I just checked my saws and the gents saw is 0.48mm thick and my back saw is 0.58mm thick. I purchased a larger piece of metal than I needed and cut to size with a metal disk I the angle grinder, the filed to final size.

Is 77mm deep enough?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/31257839...624&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[deema]

The Yorkshire man in me would simply turn the bade around (remove from brass back, flip) and resharpen, the heel is never used, so if it’s a bit shorter isn’t an issue.

I can see you’ve struggled with trying to correct the cows and calves and it would I believe have been better to strip all the teeth off, and start again. It’s often the best and easiest solution to a ‘problem’ saw. May I humbly recommend you follow the method I’ve proposed in a thread about restoring a 99p saw. Ive not found anyone who doesn’t get good results by following it. If you want a new blade, often the cheapest way is either a horrid looking secondhand saw, or the cheapest backed resharpenable saw you can find.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-re-teething-of-a-99p-saw-completed.98494/

 

[Ttrees]

The Yorkshire man in me would simply turn the bade around (remove from brass back, flip) and resharpen, the heel is never used, so if it’s a bit shorter isn’t an issue.

I can see you’ve struggled with trying to correct the cows and calves and it would I believe have been better to strip all the teeth off, and start again. It’s often the best and easiest solution to a ‘problem’ saw. May I humbly recommend you follow the method I’ve proposed in a thread about restoring a 99p saw.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-re-teething-of-a-99p-saw-completed.98494/

That might well be my thinking if I were stuck with no suitable plate to replace with.
However, after experiencing hard spots on some real old saws which are file killers, they certainly don't file as easy as the norm.
I'm taking a guess the plate was brittle, as I've never seen that happen before,
and would be likely be easier /cheaper just to replace the plate, as such saw files aren't cheap.

 

[steve355]

The Yorkshire man in me would simply turn the bade around (remove from brass back, flip) and resharpen, the heel is never used, so if it’s a bit shorter isn’t an issue.

I can see you’ve struggled with trying to correct the cows and calves and it would I believe have been better to strip all the teeth off, and start again. It’s often the best and easiest solution to a ‘problem’ saw. May I humbly recommend you follow the method I’ve proposed in a thread about restoring a 99p saw. Ive not found anyone who doesn’t get good results by following it. If you want a new blade, often the cheapest way is either a horrid looking secondhand saw, or the cheapest backed resharpenable saw you can find.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-re-teething-of-a-99p-saw-completed.98494/

That’s interesting you spotted that. Yes, in fact the line of the teeth wasn’t at all straight. So today I filed it back significantly, trying to correct it, but making sure I still had enough of the “high” teeth left to register against. It made a big difference, it was no longer sticking in the cut at a particular spot on the blade, but it was far from ideal.

My eyesight isn’t great, it’s amazing how zooming into a picture helps!

I will take a look at your method, thanks.

 

[Jameshow]

What length do you need?
I have some old tenon saws, handles are poor.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Maybe take a look at a drywall mud knife (Spackling knife), some at 8”, 10”, 12” or a bit longer. Many here in the state use the steel blades for saw plates.

 

[deema]

For a saw plate, you need Spring steel CS95, hardened and tempered to 530-570 VPN, this has a carbon content of around 0.95%. Just check if your buying something that isn’t already a resharpenable saw

I’d take up @Jameshow kind offer of a donor plate.

 

[Terrytpot]

Shoot me if I’m being silly but how about removing the existing blade,flipping it upside down,refitting and then filing a fresh set of teeth on what used to form part of it’s spine? No idea if that’s feasible just stuck me that the spine is still at its full length…

 

[IWW]

A saw blade is a "consumable" in my view & I would have no hesitation in replacing it! A typical saw blade of that size is ~0.020" (approx 0.5mm). You can go a bit thicker, say 25 thou (which I've found to be typical on the impulse-hardened hardware store saws), but thicker plate & small teeth don't make a happy marriage, they become very difficult to set evenly.

Hardness isn't as critical for sawplate as it is for chisel or plane blades. The range deema quotes is typical, but you can go a bit above or below & still have a perfectly servicable saw. I've re-purposed quite a few used hard-point blades and some of them seemed a wee bit soft as judged by their reaction to files, but still made good saws.

You can (or could) buy 1095 blue-tempered shim stock on Amazon at a reasonable price, though it comes in packs so you'll end up with far more than you need. It is a bit harder than necessary, which makes it a bit tough on files, but not all that bad. My very favourite dovetail saw has a 15 thou shim stock blade. I made it more than a decade ago when "ultra-thin" saws were all the rage, but such thin blades are a bit too easy to damage in the wrong hands, & these days I recommend 20 thou as a more practical thickness..

Personally, I see no point in toothing dovetail saws finer than 18tpi, especially if you are in your senior years. I use a magnifier headband to do that size - I can do finer if forced, but it's tedious & slow. Small teeth are also harder to set consistently. A well-sharpened saw in the 16-18tpi range cuts very quickly & if it's well-set it leaves a good surface that is quite adequate for fitting D/Ts "off saw"...

Just my penny's worth..
Cheers

 

[clogs]

sorry
but still no answer how the brass backing is secured to the new plate....
just interested...

 

[--Tom--]

sorry
but still no answer how the brass backing is secured to the new plate....
just interested...

All the info (and more) is in the guide Deema posted already

 

[Argus]

sorry
but still no answer how the brass backing is secured to the new plate....
just interested...

With older saws such as the OP's, the brass (or steel) backing relies on being dead straight and bent to a point of closure.
Thus, the plate is just an extremely tight fit, but not usually sitting all all the way in.
How deep the plate sits in the back's aperture determines its ultimate tension and straightness.

The plate is screwed to the handle, but the back is still an un-fixed, but very tight fit onto the upper sides of the plate and the depth can be set by tapping up and down (inwards and outwards) without dismantling the saw.

New, modern saws may differ.......or use the old method.

Hope this helps.

 

[johnwalls26]

Plenty of ideas here. If I may suggest buying a gent's saw of the same blade length and tpi might be a good option. They are inexpensive and it should be easy to swap the plates. Drilling holes for the screws is hard going, cobalt drill bits may be needed.