Sauter Shop and import taxes

[ScottandSargeant]

I bought some things from Germany a few weeks ago… I had to pay VAT on top at 20% on import but the people I bought from TOOK OFF the 19% German tax…. Sounded and seemed good…. But then I got a bill with handling charges on top from UPS which I had to pay plus the delivery took nearly 3 weeks from order to delivery. PreBrexit it took 4-5 days.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Importing from overseas has been challenging since Brexit and servicing our European customers was very stressful for the first few months. We found every country and delivery company had different charges and our customers could not predict how much they would need to pay.

We took the decision to invest in our overseas delivery system servicing 220 countries. Now our customers can order directly from our website with all taxes, duties and delivery paid at the checkout and it works!

This review came in today from a customer in South Africa.

 

[D_W]

My own experience of buying into a non-EU country from any other (EU or non) is that "it just depends". On what I don't know. Sometimes I pay (Swiss VAT and import tax) sometimes not. And to me anyway it does not seem to have any rhyme or reason - as said sometimes I have to pay, sometimes not. It does not seem to depend on the value, or on the type of goods either.

But there is one thing that really does offend me - the courier company's "handling charges" or "admin charges" or whatever they decide to call it. The likes of DHL, FedEx, TNT, UPS, etc, etc, all seem to add a charge which IMO anyway, is ridiculously high, and again seems to bear little or no relationship to either the value or the type of goods.

However, to look on the bright side for once (not that it helps you in UK)! I use Pegas blades for my scroll saw. They are made here in Switzerland. I buy them cheaper in Germany that I can from the official Pegas dealer here in Switzerland. Likewise, when I bought my Record air filter for the shop, it was cheaper from Germany (WITH Swiss VAT, customs duty, and shipping from there) than it was from the official Record dealer in Switzerland, about an hour's drive down the road from me.

Go figure.

The official dealers in the US are often the same - far higher than what you would pay for something by ordering from overseas and just hoping that DHL isn't the shipper. DHL seems to look at packages with glee, just hoping to find anything that can be spun into a tax so they can add their service fee on top.

If the same items come in through US customs, there are thresholds before a tax is assessed, but DHL has not usually observed those in my experience. They are only done correctly if the retailer is savvy and pre-fills the paper work and pre-clears imports so that DHL doesn't get the chance to make the decision on their own.

AT any rate, one of the highest things here is marshall amplifiers. What's $950 in continental europe can easily be $1800 here "without taxes" (add sales tax). And Marshall is no longer an English company - it's U.S. owned.

The issue isn't some kind of mistake - it's distribution rights, with distribution getting as much as they can out of each geography. If there is much leakage, agreements with foreign shippers will be revised so that they cannot ship to the US, or to the UK - whichever market has higher prices.

if the retailer woodcraft in the US gets exclusive rights to something, you can pretty much forget about buying whatever it is from anywhere unless you like to give them a huge premium for nothing other than their ability to negotiate being an exclusive distributor in the states.

 

[ColinDeVelen]

I recently bought some diamond stones from a UK retailer and had to fill in the Customs Declaration to get them cleared here. Even with the help of two native speakers it took a while to find a code that fitted. But, at least doing it yourself gets you a chance to play the system and pay the least import duty you can. Plus being an expat, if anyone ever asks, I just plead "Foreigner relying on google translate. Very sorry. Won't happen again."

 

[mossym]

ah Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving

was pricing up a new chipbreaker and iron for my quangsheg plane yesterday, having an issue with the ones i have and thought it may be easier to get a new set.

2 peices came to £39. total including shipping was £93, only optin for shipping listed as DHL (Express Worldwide - £30.30 in taxes and duties included) was for the total of £53.32. i'm not even clear at that point if the admin fee DHL charges to handle customs is included in that

i wouldn't be too critical of the EU shops, its no different with some of the UK shops who have even gone to the trouble of putting mechanisms in place

 

[stuart little]

The official dealers in the US are often the same - far higher than what you would pay for something by ordering from overseas and just hoping that DHL isn't the shipper. DHL seems to look at packages with glee, just hoping to find anything that can be spun into a tax so they can add their service fee on top.

If the same items come in through US customs, there are thresholds before a tax is assessed, but DHL has not usually observed those in my experience. They are only done correctly if the retailer is savvy and pre-fills the paper work and pre-clears imports so that DHL doesn't get the chance to make the decision on their own.

AT any rate, one of the highest things here is marshall amplifiers. What's $950 in continental europe can easily be $1800 here "without taxes" (add sales tax). And Marshall is no longer an English company - it's U.S. owned.

The issue isn't some kind of mistake - it's distribution rights, with distribution getting as much as they can out of each geography. If there is much leakage, agreements with foreign shippers will be revised so that they cannot ship to the US, or to the UK - whichever market has higher prices.

if the retailer woodcraft in the US gets exclusive rights to something, you can pretty much forget about buying whatever it is from anywhere unless you like to give them a huge premium for nothing other than their ability to negotiate being an exclusive distributor in the states.

I've had the same with DHL. 20+ yrs. ago in my model railroad days. I was buying HO trains etc direct from the US & using USPS, whose rates were then reasonable. The products were so much cheaper than UK, & whether or not I got hit for VAT was a 'hit or miss'. RM would charge a £4 fee, PF an £8 fee, eventually RM matched PF, but DHL et al charged up to double that. I've had RM charge £1 VAT + £4 fee !! Utter rip-off.
One supplier informed customers they were using DHL at equal cost of USPS, but USPS could still be specified. I tried the DHL 'experience', delivery in 3 days - BUT, unlike RM/PF who ask for payment before delivery, DHL delivers leaving one to wonder whether or not to be hit by VAT etc., then within 2 wks. an invoice arrives & inadvertently one immediately sees that they have overcharged (hoping you don't notice!), one then spends the best part of an hour on the phone explaining their foxtrot up & insisting on an amended invoice. Three experiences was enough. After the third one whereby DHL did not even bother to convert the $55 shipping to GBP , well they did in a way by using $1 = £1 (the rate at that time was about $1 = £0.5 or 6 or 7). When I queried this the guy I spoke to gave his personal contact, I supplied all my info. & never heard anymore - Yippee one up to me. After that I told Train World NY, not to use DHL with my orders. Eventually a change blew in & RM & PF put everything thru. customs, then exchange rates shot up, by which time I had everything I required. I sold up in 2017/18, luckily before Brexit as I sold my collection almost all around the world & came out better off. I mainly used RM, UPS & (dare I say it?) Hermes.

 

[Sauter Shop]

This is always an interesting subject.
If you order with us from the UK you pay the net price here ( without the German 19% VAT )
What you pay in the UK is a mystery, it should normally be the 20% UK VAT and a small handling charge from UPS. However I have asked a lot of my UK customers what they were charged when the goods reached the UK. I have had answers as low as 15% of the total to 22% it seems that the UK customs roll a dice and pick a number. On the bill the payment has been called VAT, tax, duty, government charges or any combination of those. The items we sell are not liable for duty, (like alcohol) so in theory only the VAT should be paid. Orders under 135₤ should also be free of UK VAT. I have one customer who makes small orders around that price once or twice a month, he knows that he saves money as the shipping costs are a lot less that the VAT.

I’m sorry I can’t give you a clearer answer but it seems that even having had over 6 years to prepare for Brexit no one in the British government has managed to give the customs authorities any clear guidelines exactly what has to be done.

It's a sad day when an English language website, that has done some considerable advertising in the UK, does 3 times more turnover in France that the UK.

 

[Spectric]

If we had a trade minister and the EU liked us then there would be a lot more UK woodworkers purchasing from the EU, but considering we cannot even get a trade deal with our special allie across the alantic then I don't hold out much hope. The UK may not be a large supplier for our EU woodworkers but we have some really great businesses that would appreciate the extra trade, likewise for us in the UK there are items we would like from the EU so this is just a case where everyone loses out to bureaucracy.

 

[johna.clements]

If we had a trade minister and the EU liked us then there would be a lot more UK woodworkers purchasing from the EU, but considering we cannot even get a trade deal with our special allie across the alantic then I don't hold out much hope. The UK may not be a large supplier for our EU woodworkers but we have some really great businesses that would appreciate the extra trade, likewise for us in the UK there are items we would like from the EU so this is just a case where everyone loses out to bureaucracy.

It is not a case of the EU not liking us it is the UK voting not to be part of the EU.
52% voted to take back control and they knew what they were voting for.
The problem we have now were called project fear.

 

[niemeyjt]

No. The problem is a few MPs who had a "meaningful vote" were so intent on getting a second referendum they voted against all the sensible compromise proposals like Nick Boles's amendment. Given the UK had previously voted "Yes" to the Common Market it would not have been a "betrayal of democracy".

Sadly, the ERG headbangers have won the day - and that is why we are where we are.

 

[niemeyjt]

Back to OP - I buy from US from time to time and it is much cheaper to ship to Switzerland. Some companies, like BHP Photo, do everything and you pay the taxes upfront.

Others, like Woodpeckers, have difficulty understanding there is anything outside the USofA and whilst they are helpful they do not precharge so I pay 7.9% VAT plus CHF20 (I think) to the Post Office or Carrier. However, unlike in the UK, I do not have to pay VAT on the carriage as well as the item, nor a duty.

And I think same applies from Germany - UK VAT is due on carriage costs as well as the item.

 

[pgrbff]

This is always an interesting subject.
If you order with us from the UK you pay the net price here ( without the German 19% VAT )
What you pay in the UK is a mystery, it should normally be the 20% UK VAT and a small handling charge from UPS. However I have asked a lot of my UK customers what they were charged when the goods reached the UK. I have had answers as low as 15% of the total to 22% it seems that the UK customs roll a dice and pick a number. On the bill the payment has been called VAT, tax, duty, government charges or any combination of those. The items we sell are not liable for duty, (like alcohol) so in theory only the VAT should be paid. Orders under 135₤ should also be free of UK VAT. I have one customer who makes small orders around that price once or twice a month, he knows that he saves money as the shipping costs are a lot less that the VAT.

I’m sorry I can’t give you a clearer answer but it seems that even having had over 6 years to prepare for Brexit no one in the British government has managed to give the customs authorities any clear guidelines exactly what has to be done.

It's a sad day when an English language website, that has done some considerable advertising in the UK, does 3 times more turnover in France that the UK.

I think this is a little unfair. Both the Italian post office and international couriers "calculate" VAT and handling charges in a totally random fashion. And here we pay these charges on all items from the UK irrespective of the value.
So it isn't just UK customs. And is it in fact customs that calculate the charges? I would have thought it was the couriers who are carrying the goods doing the sums on behalf of Customs. Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[johna.clements]

No. The problem is a few MPs who had a "meaningful vote" were so intent on getting a second referendum they voted against all the sensible compromise proposals like Nick Boles's amendment. Given the UK had previously voted "Yes" to the Common Market it would not have been a "betrayal of democracy".

Sadly, the ERG headbangers have won the day - and that is why we are where we are.

Yes the ERG wing of the Conservatives pushed for and got a referendum. They won it.
The pragmatic wing of the Conservatives were divided so the ERG prevailed.

 

[niemeyjt]

Yes the ERG wing of the Conservatives pushed for and got a referendum. They won it.
The pragmatic wing of the Conservatives were divided so the ERG prevailed.

Well actually I think it was the other parties also who cold have voted in the Boles amendment - plus the TIGGERs

 

[johna.clements]

Well actually I think it was the other parties also who cold have voted in the Boles amendment - plus the TIGGERs

That is possible but there was no agreement about how to respond to the ERG winning the referendum vote.

 

[niemeyjt]

That is possible but there was no agreement about how to respond to the ERG winning the referendum vote.

Absolutely correct - Cameron thought Project Fear 2 would work as the original Project Fear had in the Scottish IndyRef.

I don't think there was any thought as to what to do after a "Leave" vote.

 

[Spectric]

This really should have nothing to do with being in or out of the EU, trading between countries is nothing new and is how economies work. No one gains by being awkward with trading because it becomes nothing more than tit for tat and whilst we play that the east will just grow and grow until we just get swallowed.

 

[AES]

This is always an interesting subject.
If you order with us from the UK you pay the net price here ( without the German 19% VAT )
What you pay in the UK is a mystery, it should normally be the 20% UK VAT and a small handling charge from UPS. However I have asked a lot of my UK customers what they were charged when the goods reached the UK. I have had answers as low as 15% of the total to 22% it seems that the UK customs roll a dice and pick a number. On the bill the payment has been called VAT, tax, duty, government charges or any combination of those. The items we sell are not liable for duty, (like alcohol) so in theory only the VAT should be paid. Orders under 135₤ should also be free of UK VAT. I have one customer who makes small orders around that price once or twice a month, he knows that he saves money as the shipping costs are a lot less that the VAT.

I’m sorry I can’t give you a clearer answer but it seems that even having had over 6 years to prepare for Brexit no one in the British government has managed to give the customs authorities any clear guidelines exactly what has to be done.

It's a sad day when an English language website, that has done some considerable advertising in the UK, does 3 times more turnover in France that the UK.

Thanks for that. You have confirmed exactly what happens to me, a Swiss citizen living in Switzerland, and buying stuff from another country (EU and non-EU).

In my case, the main "surprise element" is not only the Customs Duty itself but especially it's the "Handling"/"Admin" (or whatever charge they call it "today") that the courier company (e.g. UPS, DHL, etc) adds on top. That charge really does seem to be just like a Lucky Dip!

NOTE: I should stress here that so far anyway, I have not bought from Sauter Shop.

 

[clogs]

just to add.......
lately a lot of German companies will not post to Greece....yes it still is in the EU....but why bother......?
So now we buy the same products from Poland, sometimes Lithuania often cheaper, well a little.....
the postal charges are quite reasonable as well......
where we used to go to Germany first we now go direct to Poland.....
every time it's been a happy transaction and no trouble with language AT ALL......

The same items I would like to buy here seem to be classed as luxury items and u get screwed by the fast buck merchants.....

Just today I went to buy 3 swiming pool led lamps.....the exact same lamp in Poland is €30 euroes where as locally it €151...!!!
guess where I'm buying from.....but I would prefer to buy locally....

So it's not just Brexit I'm afraid......

 

[johna.clements]

This really should have nothing to do with being in or out of the EU, trading between countries is nothing new and is how economies work. No one gains by being awkward with trading because it becomes nothing more than tit for tat and whilst we play that the east will just grow and grow until we just get swallowed.

We voted to leave the EU. When we left we left the benefits and obligations behind. We are now treated as a country that is not in the EU. Trading between countries is nothing new and the people who voted leave knew what they were doing. We have to make an agreement with the EU if we wish to trade on better terms than the WTO basic rules. If we do not make an an agreement and do not follow the WTO rules then the UK and the EU can be taken to the WTO and fined and have sanctions imposed. Whilst we were negotiating the Brexit agreements the UK government made repeated reference to the UK following WTO rules if no agreement was made. Boris's oven ready agreement is now in-effect, this is what he agreed.