Sash windows build advice on compliance..

[Doug71]

Yes it's your house but unfortunately no you can't just do what you want to it. The rules and regs are there for a reason, they may seem unfair or daft at times but we need rules and regs to make sure things meet a minimum standard.

It's okay for Bob down the pub to say he would just do it but he won't be the one paying the potential fines or paying to replace the windows you have just fitted with new ones that comply. It's always best to keep Building Control onside, falling out with them or trying to be deceitful generally doesn't end well.

 

[deema]

@Doug71 is where I would be, although I’m very sceptical about regulation, there is usually more good within in it than bad. However, what I’m curious about, is whether the property ever had planning permission to replace the wooden windows for plastic. I’m no expert in planning, but my understanding is that under permitted development (depending on when the change was done) the new windows have to be in keeping with the old, ie, no major change in appearance / similar materials to what was already there. This change to plastic wouldn’t be in compliance? If it was before permitted development, you would have needed planning in my understanding.

 

[Jacob]

Some over thinking going on here!
Replacing one lot of DG of unknown performance spec with another lot, whether known or unknown, is not likely to interest building control in the slightest. The wood would be better for insulation anyway.

 

[Dibs-h]

Thanks both. It seems to be the general consensus so I’m more encouraged to go with it. If the worst case scenario were to happen and Inspector Jobsworth comes knocking to demand their removal I’ll tell him to do one

Cheers all.

I'd just go with "What do you mean? These have always been in!"

Yes - I agree building regs are there for a reason, predominantly to stop idiots doing dumb stuff.

My experience of building inspectors with respect to glazing\windows is, all they seem to be interested in is the U-Value of the glazing units. They wouldn't understand the composite\total U-Value nor how it is derived\calculated.

Ultimately it's about how risk averse you are or are not - each person has to weigh things up on the balance of probabilities and make their decision.

In terms of windows - if it's not a Listed Building or you aren't a Conservation Area (or you are) and what you fit looks in keeping with the street scene (or what it should be, i.e. replacing crap uPVC with well made wooden windows that suit the property better) - Planning or Building Regs will not realistically care.

It's a bit like (dare I say) speeding - some won't speed no matter what - whilst others depending on weather, location & circumstances may well (they may or may not be more experienced and may or not have higher driving abilities - and that's a different thing).

 

[HOJ]

I'd just go with "What do you mean? These have always been in!"

Worth just checking to see if you show up on Google street view.

 

[Adam W.]

Why don't you just ring them up and ask?

 

[deema]

Never ever ever at any point unless all ther options have been exhausted involve planning or council building regs on a phone call. Once you’ve asked the question and given the property details….it’s logged…..for ever!

 

[Dibs-h]

Worth just checking to see if you show up on Google street view.

Have it removed - I did.

 

[HOJ]

I agree with the arguments for doing what you like to your own property, but the law (regulations) are a fact, the simplest point from Building regs on replacement windows or as they are defined a "controlled fitting" is that they can be no worse in performance than those which they replace.

If the worst case scenario were to happen and Inspector Jobsworth comes knocking to demand their removal I’ll tell him to do one

Good luck with that.

under permitted development (depending on when the change was done) the new windows have to be in keeping with the old

That is the the theory, but neither style or material choice seem to apply.

If it was before permitted development, you would have needed planning in my understanding

No, not unless it listed, conservation or under an article 4 direction.

@JC800 If you have any prospect of moving, you will need to declare any notifiable work that has been carried out, and support your declaration with proof of compliance.

As an aside, new regulations came in, in 2022, and plastic windows may now need to be triple glazed to achieve the new targets, timber has a better performance, so there may be a change in the attitudes towards the use of timber.

Perhaps, if you go for it, keep the windows you take out just in case!

Sorry a bit scrambled trying to look back and pick bits out.

 

[Mutley Racers]

Getting back to Linseed Oil Putty. It will break down the DG unit. Over 30 years I fitted probably 180-200 DG units in wooden casements and fanlights, softwood and hardwood frames. My method was always the same. Preserve windows and beads with with green Cuprinol, allow to dry thoroughly, use an aluminium oil based primer and then glaze with double sided sticky glazing tape on the vertical rebate with a smear of Butyl putty on the top edge and on the face of the beading where it sits against the GD units inside surface. I've had 3 units break down, so not a bad result.

Colin

Hi. Could you advise on where to get literature on building casement windows that are up to regs today? I only have e the book recommended on here which is amazing but from 1907. Thanks

 

[Richard_C]

Can't help with any of the technical stuff (did manage to fix the painted shut broken cord sash windows in our first house in 1976, all SG and no rules back then) but an aside:

Last week I stayed in a holiday cottage in Keswick, with properly restored wooden sash windows, slim DG units maybe 4+4+4. Looked like original main frames with new moving bits. It was an absolute joy to come in from a long walk on a surprisingly sunny afternoon and open them, a bit at the top and a lot at the bottom to get instant airflow. Simple, quick and they stay where they are put. A well maintained smooth running sash window is a thing of great wonder.

So if you can, go for it.

 

[HOJ]

advise on where to get literature on building casement windows that are up to regs today?

When you say "casements" are we describing hinged openers or sliding sash?

The only book I know of and have a copy, is the TRADA book: Trada - Wood Windows but its dated now @ 2009, it doesn't cover
sliding sashes.

 

[Mutley Racers]

Hi. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I mean hinged openers. Will have a look at the book. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Doug71]

Hi. Could you advise on where to get literature on building casement windows that are up to regs today? I only have e the book recommended on here which is amazing but from 1907. Thanks

The Whitehill Tooling website is worth a look as it shows different window profiles complete with measurements which is a good starting point.

https://www.whitehill-tools.com/window-tooling/

 

[HOJ]

Another online option is George Barnsdale's web site, GB windows they have a resource center with PDF's, etc of their profiles, but not any "construction" info.

 

[Mutley Racers]

The Whitehill Tooling website is worth a look as it shows different window profiles complete with measurements which is a good starting point.

https://www.whitehill-tools.com/window-tooling/

Thank you. Good to see the profiles described and what is needed.

 

[RogerS]

They are only trying to stop the place going to the dogs! Sometimes they get things wrong.

Delete "sometimes" and replace with "always"