gwr
Established Member
How would you cut the pockets out when making a batch of sash n case windows? (hammer)
sash n case
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
After all machining but before you glue and nail them together. Make sure you don't also glue and nail the pocket pieces themselves.gwr":353etp55 said:
Plough the groove for the parting bead before assembly. Drill two shallow holes with a centre bit at the back, on the groove at top and bottom of the pocket, to give room to saw in across the grain, on the back, the toe of the saw going into the hole. Saw half the thickness of the wood.
On the front side, make the oblique saw cut at the top, working into the groove, half the depth, and the straight cut at the bottom. These cuts are about 3/8" away from the cuts you did at the back.
Rip down the groove with a keyhole saw from one hole to the other.
Knock the pocket hard with a hammer to split the short grain left between the cuts and free the pocket piece.
This all needs a diagram, but the point is that the pocket exactly fits the hole as it is cut from it. No waste and quick to do.
On the front side, make the oblique saw cut at the top, working into the groove, half the depth, and the straight cut at the bottom. These cuts are about 3/8" away from the cuts you did at the back.
Rip down the groove with a keyhole saw from one hole to the other.
Knock the pocket hard with a hammer to split the short grain left between the cuts and free the pocket piece.
This all needs a diagram, but the point is that the pocket exactly fits the hole as it is cut from it. No waste and quick to do.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Ditto (more or less) except I'd do it the other way up so the oblique cut edge is held in at the bottom. It'll stay in place longer. The only weakness being that it could be a water trap (if water ever got that close) unless well painted over.
bosshogg
Established Member
Thanks Bosshogg, that's what I meant.
The best way to understand all this is to look closely at an old one. That's still woefully easy to do, as people still persist in ripping out good timber windows to replace with plastic which won't last as long.
My description assumes you will want to put the pocket where the inner sash runs, with one edge on the parting bead groove. In my limited experience this is the usual place, though I have seen descriptions suggesting it should be central, ie with the groove running down the centre of the pocket. I know Jacob will have had more experience of working on a wider variety of old windows and may have seen more variants.
The best way to understand all this is to look closely at an old one. That's still woefully easy to do, as people still persist in ripping out good timber windows to replace with plastic which won't last as long.
My description assumes you will want to put the pocket where the inner sash runs, with one edge on the parting bead groove. In my limited experience this is the usual place, though I have seen descriptions suggesting it should be central, ie with the groove running down the centre of the pocket. I know Jacob will have had more experience of working on a wider variety of old windows and may have seen more variants.
Eric The Viking
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Following this with interest, but a bit confused. Did you mean this?:
I take Jacob's point about the oblique cut, but the other consideration is getting the thing apart to change the sash cords. If it's on top it is less likely to get gummed up with paint. but if it's on the bottom, it's a help getting the weights out... :duno:
I take Jacob's point about the oblique cut, but the other consideration is getting the thing apart to change the sash cords. If it's on top it is less likely to get gummed up with paint. but if it's on the bottom, it's a help getting the weights out... :duno:
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Eric The Viking":sa0ie0gg said:
Yes, the bits marked are where you split the grain of the wood.
The bit you marked as top is, in my experience, at the top. I think the justification for putting it that way up is that the descending sash will force it back into place if necessary - but in practice, they fit nice and tight without any fuss.
If you stand in the room, and look at the board that makes the side of the box, the pocket piece will normally be from the edge nearest to you, up to the central groove. Consequently, the innermost beading cannot be nailed into the edge of it. So some books advise that it should be further forward, ie with the parting bead groove running down its centre. I've not seen that in the houses I have lived in and it would be harder to do - you would have to do a second long rip cut, and both rip cuts would be in the full thickness, whereas normally the parting bead groove takes away half the thickness for you.
Eric The Viking
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Makes sense.
Having the pocket cover on the inside shouldn't matter, because the mitres on the stop bead, if cut tidly, help to keep the stop bead in place at the bottom, and it shouldn't need nailing more than every 10 inches or so anyway. You really don't want the pocket straddling the parting bead even if you could cut it easily, as that means it would take the weather that the parting bead helps to keep out, and let damp into the weight box, and/or rot on that edge itself.
The ones that drive me mad are those with a pivoting board separating the sash weights (can't remember the proper term). I think they're supposed to stop the weights colliding with each other, but they make getting the front weight out a real PITA. I've never quite understood that either, as the weights are/should be well spaced anyway.
Still the present place has uPVC casements so it's not presently an issue for us
cheers,
E.
AndyT":1nwgcpz9 said:
Having the pocket cover on the inside shouldn't matter, because the mitres on the stop bead, if cut tidly, help to keep the stop bead in place at the bottom, and it shouldn't need nailing more than every 10 inches or so anyway. You really don't want the pocket straddling the parting bead even if you could cut it easily, as that means it would take the weather that the parting bead helps to keep out, and let damp into the weight box, and/or rot on that edge itself.
The ones that drive me mad are those with a pivoting board separating the sash weights (can't remember the proper term). I think they're supposed to stop the weights colliding with each other, but they make getting the front weight out a real PITA. I've never quite understood that either, as the weights are/should be well spaced anyway.
Still the present place has uPVC casements so it's not presently an issue for us
cheers,
E.
RogerS
Established Member
The Fein is designed for this.
gwr
Established Member
Sorry i have been away for a few days and not had a chance to log on to this site so thanks for your help the diagrams helped lots and job now done cheers
OPJ
Established Member
Sounds like you've got it sorted now but, for anyone who may still be interested, agbagb123 (a member here) uploaded a video of this some time ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvMhO6J8EPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvMhO6J8EPk
