Sash Cramps

[wizer]

Hello

I'm after a couple of long sash cramps. Looking on screwfix they have 2 options

Either

Forge Steel Sash Clamp 48" @ £15.99 ea

OR

Irwin Record Sash Clamp 48" (1219mm) @ £31.49

Question is: Are the Irwins worth the extra money?

I'd rather not spend £60 on cramps right now but if the cheaper ones aren't going to last then I guess I could be talked into it.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I can't speak for the first ones, but I have 5' versions of the Irwin (used to be Record).

They are high quality, buy once and last the rest of your life. I once bought some chepao sash cramps, they were rubbish from the start. The things that you need are that the bar doesn't bend under pressure and that the faces clamp up square to each other. The pins should be securely attached and the threads should be well cut in secure castings.

In my cheapos all these things were lacking.

Your choice, of course, but I'd recommend the Irwins. No connection etc.

S

 

[Alf]

Having gone down the cheap sash clamp route, I agree with Steve; painful lesson to learn. Not that they weren't fettle-able into slightly more usable condition, like replacing the lousy pins with bolts, but I simply can't rely on them. Of course the Forge Steel ones may buck the trend for all I know; be nice to hear from an owner. Can't speak for the modern Irwins either, mind you. Personally I went with clamp heads instead but that choice seems to be a bit like loving or hating Marmite.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Personally I went with clamp heads instead but that choice seems to be a bit like loving or hating Marmite.

I hate Marmite but I love cramp heads :lol: They have several advantages. First, they are cheap - I bought loads of them back in the 1970s and it meant that I could have lots of sash cramps at little cost. Second, you can make the sash cramps whatever length you like. And if you run out of G cramps you can make up very short sash cramps and in effect have more G cramps If you have any problems with bending, just use thicker section wood (or laminate it) for the bar.

My first choice would always be the heavy duty, proper Record sash cramps but cramp heads are my second choice.

Just one word of caution, based on experience. If you go for Record #130 cramp heads (they are the ones I use) try to get the older ones (second-hand) with the shorter thread. I find that with the newer ones, which have a longer thread, this tends to lift a bit as you tighten it up. The threaded bit is just too long.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[wizer]

hehe I expected that answer tbh. Cramp heads has got me thinking. Couple of questions. I take it the Irwin ones are the best bet?

For the wood bar, can I use laminated plywood? Or is this not a good idea?

Thanks

 

[andrewm]

Irwin Record Sash Clamp 48" (1219mm) @ £31.49

Or for a little more you could have the Bessey K series which seem to be highly rated on here.

Andrew

 

[Paul Chapman]

I take it the Irwin ones are the best bet?

For the wood bar, can I use laminated plywood?

Those Irwin Record ones are the newer style with the longer thread that I was talking about. They are OK but if you screw the cramp out to its full extension, they can tend to lift a bit. I'll take a photo later to show you the difference between the old and new pattern. They would be fine but would work better if you don't screw them out all the way. If you can find any of the older pattern second-hand, I would snap them up. Alf favours the Paramo pattern where the pin hole is slotted which draws the heads closer to the bar as you tighten them up. Might have one of those as well, which I'll include in the photo if I can find it (bet you never thought cramp head could be so complicated :lol: )

No reason why plywood would not work. You could cut it as deep as you like to resist any tendency for the bar to bend.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Have had same set of Record sash cramps for years - lots of use- no probs.
One of them has a tapered pin instead of straight. This is a big improvement as it stays in place whilst you are fiddling about with the cramp. esp if it's a long one and you have to walk around the bench to put the pin back, in the middle of a frantic glueing up session.
I keep meaning to get some more made up but haven't got around to it. Or can you buy them anywhere?

cheers
Jacob

 

[Paul Chapman]

One of them has a tapered pin instead of straight. This is a big improvement as it stays in place whilst you are fiddling about with the cramp. esp if it's a long one and you have to walk around the bench to put the pin back, in the middle of a frantic glueing up session.
I keep meaning to get some more made up but haven't got around to it. Or can you buy them anywhere?

Jacob, throw the pins away and use a bolt and nut instead - they don't fall out

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

One of them has a tapered pin instead of straight. This is a big improvement as it stays in place whilst you are fiddling about with the cramp. esp if it's a long one and you have to walk around the bench to put the pin back, in the middle of a frantic glueing up session.
I keep meaning to get some more made up but haven't got around to it. Or can you buy them anywhere?

Jacob, throw the pins away and use a bolt and nut instead - they don't fall out

Cheers :wink:


Paul

I do that as well - but tapered pin much more convenient than a bolt. Just a light tap to fix it or loosen it.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Lord Nibbo]

One of them has a tapered pin instead of straight. This is a big improvement as it stays in place whilst you are fiddling about with the cramp. esp if it's a long one and you have to walk around the bench to put the pin back, in the middle of a frantic glueing up session.
I keep meaning to get some more made up but haven't got around to it. Or can you buy them anywhere?

Jacob, throw the pins away and use a bolt and nut instead - they don't fall out

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Any of these would stop pins falling out, just drill a small hole through the pin is all thats needed

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Wizer,

Here's a picture - new pattern with the longer thread at the top, older pattern at the bottom. Couldn't find my Paramo one - haven't used it for years and can't remember where I've put it (seems like the long-term and short-term memory have now gone )

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The longer thread would appear to be an advantage but, in practice, the shorter thread works far better.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[DomValente]

Don't know how old you are Wizer but the weight of those Records gets a bit tiring when you've got several to chuck around.

Dom

 

[Scrit]

I'm with the pro-Record (nee Irwin) sash cramp bridgade. They last forever and don't require "fettling" out of the box. I do use cramp heads as well, although I prefer the old Paramo style heads to Records because of the taper-slide pin hole which causes them to "lock-down" onto the bar under pressure

Scrit

 

[Mike.C]

Although slightly more expensive because you have to buy the pipes instead of wood, you could also try these http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=24 I have a number of sets and I find them to be very good, with no flexing at all.
A cheaper way is to buy your own pipes locally. Along with the pipe and clamp head each of mine 72" clamps worked out about £10 each.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Mike

 

[woodbloke]

Paul Chapman wrote:

can't remember where I've put it (seems like the long-term and short-term memory have now gone )

....need to munch more Marmite Paul :lol: , and in answer to the origial question, yes, Record sash cramps every time - Rob

 

[ike]

I say don't knock em til you try em. They look almost the same - same material spec, same bar dimension (same 'I' value) Buy 2 Forge Steel. Try them. If they are good you've just saved £30. They can't be so bad as to be useless can they?

Ike

 

[Paul Chapman]

....need to munch more Marmite Paul :lol:

Paul (who is feeling ill just thinking about it)

 

[Scrit]

If they are good you've just saved £30. They can't be so bad as to be useless can they?

A long time back I persevered with cheap T-bar cramps from Machine Mart, until I could afford Records. The were OK-ish, but not really all that wonderful, so I'd say caveat emptor. The pipe cramps look interesting, though, and I know that Houtslager used to have gazillions of them in his workshop, so they would probably be well worth considering, although again I'm told the difference in quality between a Chinese copy and an original Jorgensen/Pony is just as marked

Scrit

 

[jasonB]

I've got several sets of the Pony pipe clamp heads, much prefer them to sashcramps. The No 50 works better for me but I also have some No56's, the longer reach is handy especially for adjusting the diagonals when glueing up.

Black pipe from the local plumbers merchant is a lot cheaper than Axminsters and the pipes grip the steel better than the plating. Though you do need a 3/4BSP die and stock and strong arms to cut the threads :wink:

Jason