transatlantic
Boom!
MikeJhn":1efkprps said:
But a cyclone is only good at separating the bigger particles right? .. the smaller particles are still going to clog the filter. And it's the smaller particles that are a PITA to clean off the filter?
Rutlands dust collector???
- Thread starter large red
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
But a cyclone is only good at separating the bigger particles right? .. the smaller particles are still going to clog the filter. And it's the smaller particles that are a PITA to clean off the filter?
Quite so, any very small particles will stay suspended in the air and bypass the cyclone dump box and end up in the main filter, the fad of having a cyclone will fade in time, just something else to look impressive to others and take up room IMO.
Oh yes, and you can't use a bag in the cyclone dump box, so it has to be emptied manually, exposing you and/or the atmosphere to the very thing you where trying to contain.
Mike
Oh yes, and you can't use a bag in the cyclone dump box, so it has to be emptied manually, exposing you and/or the atmosphere to the very thing you where trying to contain.
Mike
I have the same unit, albeit with a Draper badge stuck on it. I think it was the worst bit of rubbish I have ever spent my hard earned on.
By God it is loud!
The 100mm diameter hose mine came with is made of Wotsits. It splits at a dirty look and is forever falling off the spigot mounted on the drum no matter how tight it is done up.
The cartridge filter is useless, it lets all the harmful fine dust through.
The disposable socks used over the cartridge filter are equally useless, they immediately clog and prevent any air from passing through the machine rendering it useless.
In short, don't bother, it's junk.
By God it is loud!
The 100mm diameter hose mine came with is made of Wotsits. It splits at a dirty look and is forever falling off the spigot mounted on the drum no matter how tight it is done up.
The cartridge filter is useless, it lets all the harmful fine dust through.
The disposable socks used over the cartridge filter are equally useless, they immediately clog and prevent any air from passing through the machine rendering it useless.
In short, don't bother, it's junk.
After doing a bit of research and all of your opinions (thanks) I have decided not to get the Rutlands yes it's cheap but if it doesn't work it's a waste of money.
I think I have decided on a Numatic NV750 and I intend to pair it with some kind of cyclone set up. Before I press the button what's everyone's opinion?
I think I have decided on a Numatic NV750 and I intend to pair it with some kind of cyclone set up. Before I press the button what's everyone's opinion?
MattRoberts
Established Member
What tools are you using it with?large red":3rm17mei said:
Mark A
Established Member
I've been using a similar extractor branded Woodstar for years and it does everything I ask of it. Copes well with a planer-thicknesser, router table and table saw, though the hose will clog if I'm too greedy with the thicknesser's cutting depth (I'm talking 2.5-3mm per pass).
The filtering system is a funny arrangement but seems capable enough.
The original hose was atrocious, but I replaced it with a wonderfully flexible clear hose from eBay (around £10/m).
For the price I'm happy with mine.
The filtering system is a funny arrangement but seems capable enough.
The original hose was atrocious, but I replaced it with a wonderfully flexible clear hose from eBay (around £10/m).
For the price I'm happy with mine.
MattRoberts
Established Member
Unfortunately there isn't a one fits all solution covering that range of tools. The small port tools like the power tools require a vac-like LVHP extractor, and the large port tools need an HVLP chip extractor.large red":2xe7fpe2 said:
You can buy something in the middle such as the Camvac, but you're never going to get as good results across the range of tools as you would with dedicated extractors
NickN
Established Member
MattRoberts":2vojxcwb said:
Exactly so.
I have the Rutlands HPLV on my bandsaw, a cycloned Dewalt HPLV on my mitre saw and power tools, a Record Power HVLP chip extractor on the planer thicknesser, a Record Power Air Cleaner running whenever I'm using any of them, and a Titan Screwfix vacuum cleaner for what gets on the floor and surfaces regardless. Almost as much of my workshop taken up with dust extraction as with tools, but a small price to pay for a hopefully longer healthier life.
transatlantic
Boom!
By taking a HVLP machine with a 100mm output, and putting a 100mm to 35mm adaptor on it, does that make it a LVHP machine then? what is the fundamental difference between a shop vac (LVHP) and HVLP machine? (other than the pipe size)?
NickN
Established Member
transatlantic":1qix5czy said:
Very simply put, the High Pressure Low Volume extractors (shop vac / vacuum cleaner) generate high suction with a very fast motor but only shift a relatively small amount of air when doing so - but it means they can cope with HEPA filters and the like as the high suction overcomes the filter material easily, which makes them better for dealing with finer dust, so sanding, sawing etc. But the low volume = low air flow means they can't cope with something like a planer thicknesser which produces prodigous amounts of large chippings and shavings in a short time.
That's where the High Volume Low Pressure extractor, using a large fan to generate air flow, excels - shifting the big stuff quickly. But useless (relatively) on fine dust particles, as the low pressure means that as soon as a fine filter is fitted, the performance suffers.
So if you took your 100mm HVLP chip extractor and reduced the inlet, nothing much would change except that it would clog faster with large stuff. The large fan simply moves even less air if inlet is restricted.
The only 'one size fits all' solution, and even then it isn't perfect, is a very high powered ducted system based on, effectively the HPHV principle - and that needs a big powerful machine to work well.
All the above is my understanding of it anyway - but the comprehensive dust extraction thread on this forum explains it much better.
And this helpful guide from Axminster too: https://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/dust-extractors/
MattRoberts
Established Member
The impeller would be starved of air, the suction would be pitiful and the motor would burn outtransatlantic":3nofwwra said:
The primary difference is the impeller size and the motors are specifically designed to drive that size of impeller
transatlantic
Boom!
Thanks for the explanation
So then why do they come with adaptors to reduce them down to 35mm? This is what I am currently doing with my setup, so now you have me concerned. The suction seems fine, hust as good as my shop vac, if not better?
MattRoberts":3ae00a3c said:The impeller would be starved of air, the suction would be pitiful and the motor would burn out
The primary difference is the impeller size and the motors are specifically designed to drive that size of impeller
So then why do they come with adaptors to reduce them down to 35mm? This is what I am currently doing with my setup, so now you have me concerned. The suction seems fine, hust as good as my shop vac, if not better?
MattRoberts
Established Member
transatlantic":340911jz said:
Which extractor are you talking about? If it's the Camvac / rutlands type, it's actually an LVHP vac that's arguably pushing its limits with a 100mm hose, so going down to a circa 60 or 30mm hose isn't such an issue.
transatlantic
Boom!
Ah ok. It's scheppach ha1000
large red":s9aaykw0 said:
Save you money and forget the cyclone and put it towards an NVD750 the difference is it has two TwinFlow motors, but it will still struggle with large chips off a router or planer thicknesser.
Both of the 750's have a cyclone side inlet so pushing dust etc away from the filters, not as effective as a full cyclone, but better than none at all, plus they can be used with the front inlet and a filter bag inside, in all the units can have up to four filters as I have in my Numatic.
Mike
Careful when comparing machines from Machine Mart against Axminster, the MM offering has two motors at 1100watts, the Axminster has two TwinFlow motors at 1200watts and the wheeled chassis are very much different, Axminster have these machines made for them.
Mike
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/nvd752-wood-vac/
https://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-nvd ... r-ax782721
Mike
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/nvd752-wood-vac/
https://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-nvd ... r-ax782721
MikeJhn":omhbh426 said:
Absolutely incorrect info this. Before the waste would hit straight on the filter and with a good single day session I'd have to clean it. All the time taking it apart and cleaning the filter... With the cyclone I've cleaned it once since last summer and it was only a fine dusting.
I see we are dealing in absolutes here, not our usual what I have found in real use, however, I have found that the very fine dust stays suspended in the extracted air and pass's to the extractor filter and then through it into the workshop, unless you have a Hepa filter to take out those small particles, if you think this does not happen try shinning a light into the air above your main extractor filter, notwithstanding you still have to expose yourself to whatever is in the dump box when you empty it.
Mike
Mike
