Rustins Plastic Coating straight from the horses mouth

[Rhossydd]

Hi I got oak wood worktops a year ago and the kitchen fitters oiled them! Which after a year looks horrid there is a chemical barn from oven cleaner which I can't get off!.

That might have gone quite deeply into the wood, so will be difficult to remove.

My question is if a sand back my worktops could I still use this product?

Difficult to give much help I'm afraid. The answer will depend on what oil was used on the worktops and how well it penetrated them.
Rustins say that the surface to be covered should be "free from wax, dust and contaminant", so oil would be a problem. If you could sand deeply enough to get beyond any oil penetration, you might get away with it, but it wouldn't be an easy job. It would probably involve having to remove hobs, sinks etc. maybe having to take off a mm or two to get back to clean fresh timber, not just a quick rub with sandpaper.
So I don't think it's a practical proposition, sorry.

 

[rafezetter]

Sorry to necro an old post, but I am about to use this product and there's a couple of extra bits of info I would like if possible:

(I have read the other threads)

I should state I've used glass fibre epoxy resin, and casting resin many many times, but this may be fundamentally different enough to warrant the below questions:

- What's the "average" working time once mixed @ late teens temp?
- instructions state shouldn't be used below 18deg c - is that a hard and fast rule or is there a bit of leeway?
- how well does it flow out?
- The items I'm using it on have 10mm below face level floating panels with vertical sides (instead of graduated beading), should I be especially vigilant for runs?
- Does thinning it significantly have any adverse effects?
- can I use the blowlamp trick to clear any bubbles?

any or all replies to the above gratefully received

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It'll keep for a few days so long as it's kept reasonably cool, a spash of thinners helps. It flows perfectly well, thinning doesn't affect it noticeably. You should recoat it in the stated time or wait until it's bone dry. You don't really need to sand between coats to key it anyway, although if you are attempting a high polish you would flatten between coats anyway. If I try that high a finish I would leave it until hard and wet and dry it. I've never noticed any bubbles, so can't answer that one.
It is thin enough that you shouldn't find runs a problem - if you do get any, they're probably best left to dry then wet and dry'd off.

 

[rafezetter]

Thanks for that phil - I've actually edited my post a bit since you answered, but one thing I'd like cleared is when exactly is "bone dry" as information differs.

I'm not going for a high shine - too plastic looking imo, customer and I agree satin would be better, but I do quite like a reasonable facsimile of a "flatted" finish regardless of matt or high gloss so in your experience how long do you think I should wait to flat it out - or does it flat out well enough on it's own? - to the point where raking sunlight through a window won't make me wish I'd flatted it.

For the satin effect should I go through the grits or would 600 / 0000 wool and something like autosol do the trick? (if you have experience of it)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you use W&D and there is the slightest drag, it's not fully cured. It should be just like polishing a perspex or a cast resin. Left for a couple of days in warm weather should be OK. What grits? Suck it and see. If you over polish you've only to take it back again or put another coat on. Rustins do sell a burnishing cream, but that's meant for high glosses - and you can get very high gloss with it. You could try Autosol or Brasso, but even these might be too fine. If you've a good finish a bit of wax and wire wool might suffice - it's difficult stuff to screw up.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

One more point - a no no - do not put on more than about three coats in 24hrs. It traps solvent under the hardening finish and orange peels. You might get away with one more, but for the hassle it causes it's not worth it.

 

[flanajb]

I have been applying it over the last 4 days to a wooden sink worktop. It stinks and you'll need a good vapor cartridge on your face mask.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

For many years I did a large dance floor with a 15" roller annually ... I was always glad to get out of the room afterwards. #-o

 

[custard]

For the satin effect should I go through the grits or would 600 / 0000 wool and something like autosol do the trick? (if you have experience of it)

MicroMesh might be worth considering, it's not cheap but a small sheet lasts for ages provided you clean it out properly. The advantage is the control and consistency that it provides. Use 320 grit wet and dry then start with Micromesh at 1500 or 1800 and work up through the grits, you're getting matt at about 3200, satin at about 4000, satin/gloss at about 6000, and a brilliant mirror gloss at 12000. Stopping at any stage would deliver any level of matt or satin you want, and you can hit that target again and again over a large surface or on different pieces with great uniformity and accuracy. As always, test first on some scrap.

Just a thought.

 

[Jake]

I used it on our t&g kitchen ceiling for durability reasons, the finish off a spray gun was like some super-glossy italian speedboat - not really my style. Knocked it back to 320 or 240 (can't remember) and machine polished some wax on - result was a nice satiny-gloss finish since further improved by many smokey griddles/stir-

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I can't help feeling that while "Plastic Coating" might have been upmarket and trendy when Ronald Rustin formulated the stuff it could do with re branding now - I'm sure the name puts people off what is a very good product.

 

[rafezetter]

OK well I put on the first coat yesterday, 18.3deg ambient, and tried to apply a second coat 3 hours later to one of the doors, - orange peel - I thought maybe I should have stuck religiously to the 2 hr window, so left the other 4 doors and left alone.

This morning after flatting off the orange peel and giving the rest a rub down with wire wool, gave them all a good clean with white spirit and left for over an hour.

Just applied a second coat freshly mixed (with about 20% of yesterdays left in the jar) which is 26 hrs after and .... orange peel, on all of them. 24deg ambient

Could this have anything to do with it being thinned to roughly 10%, and it's too hot even though the "official" info says up to 50%? ratio is 4:1 using a measuring cup, I was fastidious about that.

Really I'd like to give it at least another coat but no idea if I should apply as normal, ignore the orange peel then flat off after, or wait another 24hrs at least and see what happens.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I can't help you on that. I've used it on all sorts of different things at all times of the year in all temperatures, and the only orange peel effect is when I've put down five or six coats in 24 hours - and then the effect is in the first coats, so irreparable. It's caused by the solvents not being able to escape, and thus a different problem to yours. What material are you coating?

 

[custard]

Plastic Coating is funny old stuff. The only times I see it is at completely opposite ends of the woodworking spectrum.

It's either on a £10k+ piece of furniture at the Cheltenham Festival of Craftsmanship, micromeshed to a dazzlingly flawless mirror gloss. Or it's been trowelled onto the bar top of a dog rough pub in Toxteth, and left to cure any which way it wants.

I guess this thread explains why it doesn't get much of a "middle market" following!

 

[rafezetter]

"and then the effect is in the first coats, so irreparable"

Are you saying if I get orange peel on the first coats I should cut back to bare wood and start again?

I'm putting it on 20 yr old Ash wood kitchen doors, that has a limed grain filler effect of water based paint and talc mixed, with sections that have been ebonised.

The first coat went on no problem, smooth and glassy - no reaction visible to the emulsion based liming which had had 4 days or more to fully cure off from the last door to be treated, longer for the rest.

The rustins I applied with a foam dishwashing pad, wiped on not too thick, almost as a wiping poly would be.

One thing I did notice this morning compared to yesteday was the wet edge was setting up very quickly, within a minute or two, so as I did the four sides (it has a central panel) following the grain the ends had to be saturated then wiped again to get them to blend. (more thinner required maybe?)

Phil what would be your course of action - brush a thicker second coat and flat after that or should I leave these again for a couple of days before flatting and trying again? The flatting is quite quick tbh with 1200 and as the effect wanted is satin cutting back the gloss is required anyway.

I've just checked and a side panel that I gave a first coat to this morning alongside the doors is smooth and glassy, no orange peel, using the same mix as the doors which orange peeled. Side panel treated exactly the same way, and cleaned with white spirit and left for an hour before coating.

 

[rafezetter]

Plastic Coating is funny old stuff. The only times I see it is at completely opposite ends of the woodworking spectrum.

It's either on a £10k+ piece of furniture at the Cheltenham Festival of Craftsmanship, micromeshed to a dazzlingly flawless mirror gloss. Or it's been trowelled onto the bar top of a dog rough pub in Toxteth, and left to cure any which way it wants.

I guess this thread explains why it doesn't get much of a "middle market" following!

You mean because it's not quite as foolproof to use as might be beleived? I'm really puzzled as to how I've gotten the orange peel this morning after 26 hrs and the ambient outside hasn't been too bad these last 2 nights, and being outside it's been well ventilated, so it can't be "dead air" syndrome as I call it.

 

[custard]

You mean because it's not quite as foolproof to use as might be beleived?

Because you either sink an awful lot of hours into it and get a unique and pretty special finish, or you apply it faster and get something that's bomb proof but looks pretty nasty. There doesn't seem to be a third option.

 

[Setch]

I love Rustins PC, but it can be a temperamental product, especially if you get into the more complicated areas like tinting it, sunbursting or spraying masked areas then then topcoating.

Here's a couple of examples of the fancier finishes I've done with it, masked and scraped bindings, then clear coats over the top to level before buffing to a nice gloss.

 

[rafezetter]

I've emailed rustins about this for advice, it'll be interesting to see if they respond.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I meant the orange peel is under the surface - but doesn't appear until it's too late. It's an effect rather than a true orange peel which is a dimpling. Six or seven coats in 24 hours in hot weather and you're there. I would think what you have is a surface problem? I would dispense with the pad and use a decent brush - if you have trouble with a dry edge (just like a run) don't try to fix it while anything like wet - leave it to dry thoroughly or you'll end up with a mess.