Router table with lift and motor v Router in table with lift

[Craig Taylor]

Hi All,

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before. But what are the benefits/drawbacks of a pre-built Router table with a lift and motor versus building your own. I currently have the 'handheld' Trend router and certainly see the benefit of having another router fixed in a table with a lift - just working out the best way to go from here. Given I'll need to buy a new router; £200 for the Rutland table with motor and lift looks a no brainer? Or am I missing something?

TIA!

 

[Spectric]

This is a huge topic and a journey that many have taken but often not the direct route and there are many threads so worth doing a search and some reading. The very first thing to bear in mind is that there are two types of router insert plate / lifts which are either metric like Rutlands or imperial like Jessem, Woodpecker, Incra and Kreg so with the imperial size you have far more options. The best solution is a router motor in a lift which is not cheap but not vastly more expensive than buying say the Jessem prestige and a big Triton router, power is what you need if doing a lot of routing. In your position you could do it once and end up with a great router table or like myself and others you could try other options and end up spending more to get to what you really wanted.

I used a Triton Tra001 in a kreg table for some time and although a bit finicky it did deliver but you had to learn to live with it's behavior and it worked. Now I am using that Triton in a Jessem prestige lift in the Kreg table and a muscle chuck to make bit changing easy and that works much better because it gives finer and more repeatable heights, my only issue is the plastic insert rings don't lock in as tight as the Kreg ones.

I am now looking at a new setup with the Incra lift and AUK motor along with the Incra positioner on a more modular system that also doubles up as a workbench so making better use of my available space. What makes the american lifts so good is there simplicity, good linear bearings and a single threaded rod for precise adjustment, for me there is not enough price difference to consider the Rutland option on the left.

 

[Ollie78]

@Spectric has summed it up pretty well.
I have been though many iterations of router table including Trend then a Triton which was slightly better but now I actually have a rutlands motor in a lift, but not the all in one thing you have linked, its basically the same as the AUK one, best thing is it has a side crank handle for raising and lowering which is quick and easy. its a slightly different version of this thing Router Tables & Lifts | Next Day Delivery
I have it set up in a table made from repurposed kitchen bits and an incra fence.

I think the table is quite small on that one you have linked which could be an issue, it is probably Ok and for 200 quid you can`t really grumble. Don`t expect it to be as good as a full sized table setup though.


Ollie

 

[Hornbeam]

Like many I have had a number of different router based set ups before buying a jessem+AUK router, which was a total game changer. I also think it is important to have a big enough table. I would suggest 800mm wide, but if you want to cut grooves etc you need to have enough room behind where the cutter is. The other thing to consider is the fence adjustment. It is all well and good having 0.05mm height adjustment if you dont also have fine adjustment on the fence.
Jessem and Incra do both metric and imperial scales see
https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/routing/routers-and-lifts/]

 

[Spectric]

It is all well and good having 0.05mm height adjustment if you dont also have fine adjustment on the fence.

Tell me about it, having the precision of height adjustment with the Jessem prestige it really highlighted the lack of precision fence adjustment I have with the Kreg fence which apart from that is a really solid fence.

By the way that link is a 404 !

 

[--Tom--]

The motor setups start getting towards the cost of a spindle moulder that’ll take a router chuck - any reason why they’re not more popular - seem a much more solid option?

 

[Spectric]

any reason why they’re not more popular

Marketing and exposure, we see a lot of advertising for routers and router tables but not a lot for the spindle moulder. We tend to think of the spindle as something industrial and to be aware of but it needs more people with them providing more information because even at the woodworking shows how many spindle moulders are on show.

Maybe this will help

If the spindle can also take router cutters in a chuck then it must become both a router and spindle moulder so even more reason to go spindle and not router so looks like my next table upgrade remains up in the air.

 

[MikeK]

The motor setups start getting towards the cost of a spindle moulder that’ll take a router chuck - any reason why they’re not more popular - seem a much more solid option?

I think one reason the two systems are not compatible is the difference in the spindle speed range. From what I've seen recently, the speed of a spindle moulder rarely approaches 10,000 RPM. The older machines I looked at had a range of 1800-8500 RPM in three or four belt-driven ranges. This is great for the large cutter heads.

By contrast, the spindle speed of the AUKTools router in my table is continuously variable from 10,000-22,000 RPM. This is great for the smaller cutters. The largest cutter I can use with my router table is determined by the size of the hole in the router lift or the reducer rings, and I have to set the speed at the lowest setting.

I don't know how well a cutter designed for a router would perform in a spindle moulder at 8500 RPM. However, the Axminster AP220SM spindle moulder comes with a router collet chuck for 8mm and 1/2-inch shaft router cutters.

A 200mm diameter rebate cutter block in a spindle moulder set at a screaming 8500 RPM has a tip speed of about 89 meters per second. A 20mm diameter rebate cutter in a router table set at 22,000 RPM has a tip speed of about 23 meters per second. Putting the 20mm rebate cutter in the spindle moulder at 8500 RPM gives a tip speed of about 9 meters per second, which is less than half of the speed in the router table.

 

[llywmog]

@Spectric has summed it up pretty well.
I have been though many iterations of router table including Trend then a Triton which was slightly better but now I actually have a rutlands motor in a lift, but not the all in one thing you have linked, its basically the same as the AUK one, best thing is it has a side crank handle for raising and lowering which is quick and easy. its a slightly different version of this thing Router Tables & Lifts | Next Day Delivery
I have it set up in a table made from repurposed kitchen buts and an incra fence.

I think the table is quite small on that one you have linked which could be an issue, it is probably Ok and for 200 quid you can`t really grumble. Don`t expect it to be as good as a full sized table setup though.


Ollie

Here's a link to a Hooked on Wood review of the lift Ollie has linked to:

It sounds like a tidy option, especially as Rutlands recently had it on a good deal with the AUK-like motor. However, like Spectric, I opted for the Incra and AUK. Although more expensive, the price difference wasn't great enough (for me) to keep thinking I'd made the wrong choice. Plus it comes with the external on/off switch and speed control which makes it so much easier to control than having to look under the table. Fortunately got it during a WWW sale.

 

[Ollie78]

The motor setups start getting towards the cost of a spindle moulder that’ll take a router chuck - any reason why they’re not more popular - seem a much more solid option?

Spindle moulders don't go as fast as a router, the bigger cutter heads mean the tip speed is fast at lower rpm. They won't be good for small cutters.

 

[Spectric]

Thats a great point that Ollie has made, with a big heavy cutter head and larger diameter the spindle does not need to turn at 20,000 Rpm so fitting the router chuck would restrict you to the larger router cutters, apart from being able to use your existing collection of cutters what are the other advantages ?

 

[Craig Taylor]

@Spectric has summed it up pretty well.
I have been though many iterations of router table including Trend then a Triton which was slightly better but now I actually have a rutlands motor in a lift, but not the all in one thing you have linked, its basically the same as the AUK one, best thing is it has a side crank handle for raising and lowering which is quick and easy. its a slightly different version of this thing Router Tables & Lifts | Next Day Delivery
I have it set up in a table made from repurposed kitchen bits and an incra fence.

I think the table is quite small on that one you have linked which could be an issue, it is probably Ok and for 200 quid you can`t really grumble. Don`t expect it to be as good as a full sized table setup though.


Ollie

Thanks Ollie!

Presumably I could 'accesorise' the all in one jobbie by building a 'table' around it (along with dust collection, etc!) if I find the table size limiting.

Still feels like I'm missing something obviously wrong with an 'all in one', otherwise everyone would use one!

 

[Hornbeam]

Hi Craig. This is a review I did of the Jessem/AUK a couple of years ago
You can also see how I have made the fine fence adjuster. Thread on the adjuster is 1mm pitch so 1 turn of teh thumb screw moves the fence 1mm. Also you can just move one end of the fence so it pivots around the other fixed end which approximately doubles the sensitivity of adjustment
Ian
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/jessem-router-lift-and-auk-router.114870/

 

[Spectric]

Who makes these ?

 

[HamsterJam]

After some agonising and prevarication, plus a nudge to cut out the middle steps on this forum, I opted for the Rutland motor/lift combo rather than fitting a handheld router into a table. (My decision was helped when they dropped the price by £100)
I have fitted this into piece of kitchen worktop and made a fence from 18mm MDF.
This works well although I need to sort fine fence adjustment and dust collection under the table.
Off to the workshop shortly. I’ll post a picture.

 

[Hornbeam]

Who makes these ?

They are part of a flip stop (same as the red ones on the fence but made from plastic) I bought them from Bangood
https://uk.banggood.com/Drillpro-Al....html?cur_warehouse=CN&rmmds=CategoryToolsPop
Cant find the plastic ones
Take off the flip0 part and put in a piece of threaded rod instead of the bolt

 

[HamsterJam]

Off to the workshop shortly. I’ll post a picture.

 

[Ollie78]

Thanks Ollie!

Presumably I could 'accesorise' the all in one jobbie by building a 'table' around it (along with dust collection, etc!) if I find the table size limiting.

Still feels like I'm missing something obviously wrong with an 'all in one', otherwise everyone would use one!

There is degrees of everything and it depends what you are actually trying to do.

I personally would not attempt to build a table around the little machine, if you are going to want a bigger table, better motor, perhaps repeatable indexing fence, etc then I would start with an insert and motor and build a table around that.

There is nothing wrong with that little system, in fact I keep considering getting one to live in my van.
But it is not a precision made high quality item, hence its price.

Ollie

 

[clogs]

would love a router lift and prob a better / bigger table....but from memory a price of £300 or more seems crazy just for a lift.....
yes I understand that accuracy is needed....but manufacturers are having a laugh.....
I keep looking at making my own but it's on the to=do later list.....

my old wreck of a table is years old with a 3HP Hitachi hanging under it......
it's done miles of work.......
just got so fed up adjusting the cutting depth, the springs in the router were a right pain so binned em.....at least I can lift and lower the router without a struggle.....

So now at 74 and who knows how long u have.....?
so what about a dedicated router motor and table combo and then there's water cooling ?? or is that just for CNC.....

PS ........I have two spindles which I just love....

 

[heimlaga]

I had a spindle moulder long before I had a router not to mention a router table.

In my oppinion a spindle moulder is a lot more useful than a router table. At least to me as a part timer. There is really no way of comparing the two. I run either of my two spindle moulders for several hours for every 5 minutes running the router table.
The only two factors that are against spindle moulders are that the proper tooling is very expensive and that a sindle moulder has to be big and solid to really shine so it takes up a good bit of space.

Running router tooling in a spindle moulder is usually not a good idea. Back in the 50-ies when router tooling was made from high speed steel which worked well at fairly low cutting speeds people did some good work with router tooling in spindle mouldrs but in our time of carbide router tools the whole concept is little more than a marketing ploy. Very few spindle moulders can run fast enough. The perimeter speed of the larger diametre bearings in a spindle moulder becomes too high at router RPMs. There are some spindle moulders which overcome this by using special high speed angular contact bearings lubricated by oil which is fed from an oil pump probably through an oil cooler but then we are talking about the most expensive models from premium makers such as Martin or Hofmann. To us ordinary mortals router tooling in spindle moulders is just not a good idea.
Proper spindle moulder tooling is available from any number of makers and just about any profile can be custom made. They are just not cheap unless one can find secondhand tooling which isn't outdated or worn out to the point of being suicidal.

To many hobbyists space constraints and tooling costs are more important factors than the eventual efficiency and versatility of the machine so therefore many end up using router tables instead.
There is no one size fits all in woodworking.

Coming from this background I ended up converting the remnants of a scrapped 1920-ies light duty line shaft driven spindle moulder into a super solid router table once I decided to get my first ever router table. I bought the remains for 50 euros. There were only a few rotten splinters left of the old wooden frame so I welded up a new frame from 8mm mild steel plate and bolted the old cast iron table on top. Fabricated a new fence with integral dust collection. Converted the old cast iron spindle assembly to carry a Suchner router motor. I just couldn't bring myself to spend good money on any of the lightweight contraptions on the market.
Again not a solution that fits everyone but it illustrates how valuable rigidity and power are once there is serious production taking place.

Plenty of good work is being made daily on standard lightweight router tables but one should always be aware of the limitations of that technology.

At the moment there are any number of suppliers employing an even greater number of marketing professionals to make people believe that spindle moulders are tings of the past and that only their hobby grade router based gadget has any future. It is often difficult to make informed purchase decisions while being mildly shell shocked by this barrage of empty words.
After all it boils down to one simple sentence. There is no one size fits all in woodworking.