Router service - opinion please

[Anonymous]

I e-mailed [the retailer**] giving details of the problem with my DeWalt 625EK and asking for a replacement: bits keep slipping, the collet was chewing up the shanks, and that now there are grooves in the router shaft; this was after only a few worktop cuts, but was just outside the 30 days money back guarantee period. I could have asked for my money back as I don't actually *need * a router anymore. They were obviously reluctant to take it back, saying I should take it to a service centre and emphasising that if they picked it up and found nothing wrong, I'd have to pay for the carriage etc. This seems reasonable in principle, but it sounded more like a threat than helpful advice, i.e. that that outcome was more likely than not. When I initially stood my ground, the young guy admitted he was under instructions to try to pursued me to take it to a service centre.

Anyway, I took it to the service centre they'd referred me to, and told another young chap behind the counter the problem. As he began to fill in his form, I also mentioned there was a tendency for the measuring lens to stick, and the 30 mm guide bush didn't have a flat base. He wrote that down but nothing else. I asked "aren't you going to make a note of the main issue?". And he said "what was that then?" So I told him again about the bits slipping and the grooves in the shaft, and he wrote down something down to that effect.They've now phoned back after a few days saying it's fixed and that there was a problem with the collet. I said "what about the grooves in the shaft"? First he said they hadn't noticed anything wrong with it (this guy was audibly eating his lunch while he's talking to me, btw), but when I said someone had told me that the shaft should be smooth and that I thought grooves are an issue, he said something to the effect that in their opinion it's now fixed and it's all right.

So what do you chaps think? Does it matter or not that I've got grooves in the shaft? They're 90 degrees apart (actually I think there's 4 pairs of grooves) and deep enough to clearly feel by sliding your finger nail around the inside of the shaft, but you need to hold it up to the light to see them.

** Don't know what the policy is here, but if people want to know, and it's alright with the moderator, I'll name them.

Square

 

[Anonymous]

Square. Not very good service at all. I do not see why you shouldn't name them here as it would be a service to he rest of us and a warning should we consider that particular supplier.

Without seeing the damage to the shaft it is hard to comment. However, your description leaves me feeling that
a) they shouldn't be there (but you might have made them)
b) they shouldn't be a problem as long as they are not near the collet or bearing

OK, accordingy to my 'Which magazine' consumers law guide:

Under the terms of the sale of goods act 1977 ( strengthened by the supply of goods act 1994) goods must:

Fit the desciption on them
Be of satisfactory quality - free from minor and major defects (yours weren't)
Be reasonably fit for purpose (yours wasn't)

If the goods do not meet any of these, then the retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer.

Also, in the case of faulty goods (yours) the shop must pay monetary compensation because the seller has broken the sales of goods act 1997. Compensation should be in the form of a FULL refund or the price of the cost of the repair - this amount will reduce in amount over time as you have had some use from the goods
To reject goods, return them to the shop or demand that the seller collect them (or they can pay for return postage) . Send a letter (keep a copy) making it clear you are rejecting the faulty goods and seeking a full refund of all monies. Unfortunately, if this fails you will have to sue the retailer.

Hope this helps

 

[Chris Knight]

Square,

I'd stay out of the clutches of service centres in future if possible. My own albeit limited experience has been wholly negative and similar to yours.

I think the fact is that even expensive routers are regarded basically like kleenex items and apart from the sort of secondary "recycling industry" that has grown up around discount power tools, no one is interested in repairing a duff tool.

I have generally bought routers and the like from a local retailer - not by any neans the cheapest buy I could have made but priced reasonably- and on the few occasions when I have had a problem, they simply replaced the tool with a new one.

Recalling your original post - I'd push for a replacement tool using the arguments of those who know about consumer protection law (lots in this forum on that topic lately!)

 

[Alf]

When I initially stood my ground, the young guy admitted he was under instructions to try to pursued me to take it to a service centre.

Well I reckon that deserves naming and shaming, personally. :evil:

he said something to the effect that in their opinion it's now fixed and it's all right.

Been there, done that, got shafted. Why the heck should you have to live with a router that's less than perfect having spent good money on it, and the bits it chewed up...? Why should you have to worry that any moment something else on it might turn out to be faulty too? Without being able to se the damage and so forth, I'd say go with Tony's advice.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Midnight]

I'd say go with Tony's advice

yupp... absolutely...

afterall, the safety of the machine depends entirely on the proper interaction between the collet and the shaft...

 

[Anonymous]

The grooves in the shaft appear to have been made by the edges of the segments in the duff collet. I'm wondering, therefore, whether that'll cause problems even with a new collet.

The retailer is D&M Tools. They said that they would have only sent it to a service centre anyway. Seems to me I could argue that as a service centre has said the collet was faulty, it caused the grooves, the grooves shouldn't be there, and therefore I want a replacement. Trouble is, the service centre says the grooves aren't a problem - notwithstanding the fact that it didn't sound like they'd actually looked at them. LOL

Square

 

[Alf]

The grooves in the shaft appear to have been made by the edges of the segments in the duff collet. I'm wondering, therefore, whether that'll cause problems even with a new collet.

Hmm, yeah, I'd wonder about that too. Not something you want to have to wonder about when it's spinning around at thousands of revs really... :?

Well that's D&M's previously good record rather blotted. Shame. Although thinking about it I'm not sure anyone's reported having a faulty thing they've needed to sort out with them before, which is, as we so often find, the acid test. :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Bean]

Square

Stick with your principles here, send it back and insist upon a replacement or a full refund as this router is faulty. Remember you have a legal right to a replacement or a full refund. At these moments I try to up the anti each time the supplier trys to fob me off.
Start with a Full refund and if they will not play add the cost of the cutters as well. It helps to be incredibly stubborn and not to budge a fraction of a millimeter. Remember right is on your side. If all else fails a bit of adverse publicity works wonders.

Best of luck

Bean

 

[Dewy]

Quoting Tony
Under the terms of the sale of goods act 1977 ( strengthened by the supply of goods act 1994) goods must:
Fit the desciption on them
Be of satisfactory quality - free from minor and major defects (yours weren't)
Be reasonably fit for purpose (yours wasn't)

If the goods do not meet any of these, then the retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer. end quote.

These were preceded by the Sale of goods act 1898 which states that the goods must be fit for purpose for which they are intended.
This onus is on the retailer who sells the goods and not the manufacturer.
Retailers always included a 'manufacturers guarantee' which they insisted was filled in and returned within a certain time. All this did was get you to accept the stated 'guarantee' thereby signing away your rights under the act. The new legislation was intended to stop this copout.

 

[Anonymous]

I got the router back from the service agent yesterday. All they said they'd done was replace the collet, as it was faulty.

I've decided to bring in the heavy artillery earlier than I'd intended.
I've just e-mailed D&M demanding a refund on the basis the product was faulty and mentioning a thread on "(probably) the UK's no1 woodworking forum", without giving a link, but pointing out that the forum contains some serious hombres. I said that those who responded in the thread thought that D&M's resisting taking the router back and fobbing me off to a service agent was unacceptable. That D&M's service was previously seen as good, but that the real test is what they do when a product is faulty. And that hopefully this was a misunderstanding that could be rectified amicably.

We'll see....

Square

 

[Anonymous]

RESULT!

E-mail sent 1.30 pm, and they phoned me back an hour later saying 'we don't know how it got this far - normally once a fault is established we'll replace or ... (quietly) refund ..we don't know how this misunderstanding happened'.

I asked for refund, which he accepted, but I could tell this was the less popular option. He then phoned back about 4 minutes later saying, yes they can refund but you have to have *all* the documentation - invoice and both slips. Nice try, but I've still got them. 8)

Square

 

[Noel]

Good result Square. So, what you going to get instead?

Rgds

Noel

 

[CYC]

Well done!
Thanks for sharing this with us, I certainly will remember this if I have a problem.

 

[Alf]

Excellent news, Square. 8) At least at the second attempt D&M came through. :roll: Incidentally "(probably) the UK's no1 woodworking forum"? :? Hmm, touch of the Carlsburgs there...

<mind wanders> John Mills out in the desert wrestling with an old Army laptop, vowing "I'll buy you a pint, token-female-character, and show you probably the UK's #1 woodworking forum, when we get to Alex..."<mind stops wandering, for now> :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Chris Knight]

Well done Square - and well done D&M too for coming through.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all, and it probably was down to you. Being a pessimist, I'll wait until the money's banked. Notwithstanding, Noel, I think I might go for the Makita.

Alf, "token female"? Could you have mopped a brow like that? I think not. She was yummy, and they needed someone to make the truck roll all the way down the hill again and not be really mad with. <mind wandering .. hot desert, cold lager, hot Sylvia Syms.....>

Square

 

[Bean]

It is a well done to D&M but also its a great pity that you had to get heavy to obtain your legal rights and the service that most of 'us' the consumers expect from people we trade with.
Not wishing to go over the top but I see all supplier who trade like this as being on a 'B' list, ie only use as a last resort. I place trust in a supplier that they will come up with the goods, if they do not then that trust is broken and very hard to build up again.


Bean

 

[Anonymous]

Just a small pearl of wisdom regarding problems with power tools and getting them repaired. I had a small problem a couple of years ago with a circular saw, I took it in for repair under grantee and they swore blind nothing was wrong with it ( the plunge lever would not hold all the time) After an hour of arguing with the manager, I just said, fine, write me a note saying it is perfectly safe and you have inspected it, so if it lops off one of my fingers I can pass the letter to my solicitor. Funnily enough, he went straight to the stock room and got me a new one!

Joe

 

[Bean]

Nice one Expat, I'll have to remember that.


Bean

 

[Anonymous]

Time to clear conscience!

One other piece of information not hitherto mentioned - although I've PM'd a couple of people.

When I picked up the router from the service agent, I had some difficulty in finding out exactly what they'd done repair wise. They said when pressed, that the collet had been changed, but I had to stubbornly insist that one of them write that down; I wanted evidence of a fault to claim a replacement from D&M. The guy at the counter refused to do this, and said "I'll get him to do it" (the guy who'd 'repaired it'). It was all very odd.

When I got the router home, I noticed that apart from the other issues not being addressed, the plunge springs were much weaker, there's also bit of slop in the plunge action, and the plunge rods have specks of rust on them. There was categorically no rust whatsoever on the rods a week earlier when I gave it to the repair agent. Other than the faults mentioned, it was in mint condition. Any theories other than cannibalizing a new router and replacing with old components are welcome!

I chose not to tell D&M about this and risk no refund. And have been feeling guilty ever since.What rankles most is that they'll think I claimed a refund after letting it get into that state. I've emailed DeWalt anonymously, and with few details asking for suggestions, but who knows if they'll reply. In my defence, it's D&M's fault it went to the DeWalt repair agent not mine, and the agents fault it's in this state. Legally, I suspect, my position's weak. And how do you prove that they've changed components. I'm now going to phone them and hope that in the spirit of good customer relations, they won't penalize me.

This ladies and gentlemen, will be *the* acid test.

Btw, yes Expat, appealing to H&S is usually a good way of getting things dealt with.

Square