Router Problem

[Froggy]

Happy New Year guys. I want to try to start the new year by solving a problem I have with my router. It's not a cheap router but everytime I want change a bit or the collet I have to resort to a hammer and yesterday a broke the bit trying to get it out. Once I tried to tighten the whole thing slightly less than normal and the bit shot out whilst I was using it :!: :!: :shock: I've also tried a bit of WD40 on the collet but nothing seems to make any difference. Am I doing something wrong? Is it just a bad router? Is there anything I can do to resolve the problem?
Thanks in advance Froggy.

 

[9fingers]

This sounds rather like a worn or undersized collet

Any chance you are using 6mm bits in 1/4" collet?

Bob

 

[Froggy]

Hi Bob. I've used at least 2 maybe 3 different collets all with the same result.

 

[denlev]

Hi Froggy

What make of router is it? Some collets have a circular wire thingy in at top of collet which is there to stop this problem. If it dislodges or falls out the collet locks up really tight in use because of the turning torque during cutting. This was often a problem with my old ELU MOF177E especially after ploughing through worktops. Hope this makes sense.

 

[chippy mark]

it could be the collet nut is worn I had the same problem with my old elu router I replaced the nut and fixed the problem

 

[Froggy]

It's funny 2 of you mention Elu because it is a DeWalt (I forget the exact make, but it's the one just over £200). Bob is however right. I have just measured the bit in the 1/4" collet that is in the router at the moment and it is in fact 6mm And the bits I put in my 1/2" collet are 12mm. What size bits should I be using with 1/4" and 1/2" collets?

Cheers Froggy

 

[jasonB]

How are you undoing the collet?

You need to turn the nut once with the spanner to loosen it and then again after about two full turns the nut will tighten, turn again with the spanner to eject the collet.

Jason

EDIT saw your last post as I was typing. You either need 1/4 & 1/" shank bits or if you have a good collection of bits then buy 6mm & 12mm replacement collets.

 

[9fingers]

It's funny 2 of you mention Elu because it is a DeWalt (I forget the exact make, but it's the one just over £200). Bob is however right. I have just measured the bit in the 1/4" collet that is in the router at the moment and it is in fact 6mm And the bits I put in my 1/2" collet are 12mm. What size bits should I be using with 1/4" and 1/2" collets?

Cheers Froggy

At the risk of stating the blindingly bleeding obvious..... :lol:

You need 1/4" and 1/2" bits for those collets

or given you are in Froggy land, maybe source some metric collets so you can buy locally grown bits.

Bob

 

[Andy RV]

1/2" = 12.7mm
1/4" = 6.35mm

 

[hamburglar]

I found the same problem, which in my case was due to poor collet care. Had been doing alot of work with softwood and I think the resin/dust had built up in the collet. Was cure by soaking and cleaning with meths.

 

[Froggy]

Now I'm getting confused. I thought the problem was that I was using 6mm bits in 1/4" collet, but now you're saying I should use 6mm bits in a 1/4" collet. You're actually saying 6.35mm but I didn't measure that accurately and if there is a difference between 1/4" and 6.35mm then the bit size in relation to the collet is probably not the problem as the bits and collet came with the router!!

 

[Froggy]

How are you undoing the collet?

You need to turn the nut once with the spanner to loosen it and then again after about two full turns the nut will tighten, turn again with the spanner to eject the collet.

Jason

That's exactly how I am undoing the collet.

Thanks Jason

 

[9fingers]

Now I'm getting confused. I thought the problem was that I was using 6mm bits in 1/4" collet, but now you're saying I should use 6mm bits in a 1/4" collet. You're actually saying 6.35mm but I didn't measure that accurately and if there is a difference between 1/4" and 6.35mm then the bit size in relation to the collet is probably not the problem as the bits and collet came with the router!!

When it comes to the type of collets that routers use then the difference between 6.35 and 6mm and 12.7 and 12mm is HUGE and no way can they be used in the wrong combination. The gripping changes from a correct, large surface to a dangerously incorrect single circumferential line contact

A correctly matching pair of shank and un-compressed collet will have a smooth sliding fit with no perceptible shake -if anything slightly tight.

Bob

 

[Froggy]

incorrect single circumferential line contact

Bob

Not sure about that, but things are a bit clearer now I know there are 6mm and 6.35mm and 12mm and 12.7mm bits. Please excuse my ignorance. As is obvious, I'm fairly new to woodworking. Froggy.

 

[Digit]

Nine fingers is spot on Froggy, the difference may not sound much but you are transmitting over one horse power via a hair's thickness of contact twixt collet and bit shank. Not good. Also, if I can explain this ok, with the collet closed at an angle so that it pinches at the bottom, the bit shank is able to run 'planetary as will the cutting edge, that can break 'em as well.

Roy.

 

[Froggy]

Well I think my first job tomorrow is to measure and mark all my router bits and collets. At the moment they're in 1/2" and 1/4" boxes, and as I had some of them given and just looked at them to decide which box they went in...
One thing (well..one other thing!) I don't understand is that Bob says my problem could be I have a 6mm bit in a 1/4" collet, and the implication therefore is that it should be 6.35mm bit, but wouldn't that be even tighter than the 6mm bit?!!

Might not be able to answer any replies until tomorrow as we have guests arriving for a New Year party in about 10mins.

Cheers Froggy

 

[9fingers]

The problem can arise when the smaller shank allows the collet to be forced further into the router spindle and then it jams.
The best way to check it to take the collet right out of the router and slide it on and off the shanks of your various cutters feeling the fit as I described earlier.

If you try and draw a diagram of what is happening inside the collet as you tighten it with and without a slack fit, you should be able to visualise what is going on.

Bob

 

[Argee]

Can I suggest that you look at the documentation that came with the router, to determine if it was supplied with either 6mm and 12mm collets, or ¼" and ½" collets? It's unlikely that it came with a mix of metric and Imperial collets, although I suppose it's not impossible.

The only cutters that will fit the collets correctly are those designed for the collet size (i.e., 6mm for a 6mm collet). You won't get a ¼" (6.35mm) cutter in a 6mm collet, or a 12.7mm cutter in a 12mm collet, end of story.

Yes, you can insert a 6mm cutter into a ¼" (6.35mm) collet, but it won't tighten correctly - it will overtighten the inner sleeve against the collet base, ruining the collet - which sounds like what may have happened. Your only choice of action is to unscrew the nut completely and try to remove the sleeve by any means you can. If they re-assemble (snap together again), you could try using again with a correctly-sized cutter. Same thing applies to a 12mm cutter in a ½" (12.7mm) collet.

Ray

 

[Digit]

Froggy, a properly sized collet to shank will result in the shank being gripped along its full length. An over or undersize shank will be gripped only by the bottom or top of the collet and tranmitting that power via knife edge contact won't work, trust me!

Roy.

 

[jasonB]

If its a router for the French market then it will have been supplied with metric collets so looks like you may have been trying to force 1/2" (12.7mm) bits into a 12mm collet which will have stretched it. If so I would not want to use that collet again.

http://www.dewalt.fr/powertools/product ... no/DW625E/

I think "pince" is froggy for collet

Jason