router failure in router tables

[Grinding One]

hi guys, I appreciate your input. I have an operational table with a router underneath which I use sparingly as the motor has a sound like the previous one that failed. I was told that this was due to dust causing the bearings to fail. If my usage were such that I could justify purchasing a new motor I would do so...this would obviously solve my issues. .but..I'm in my mid seventies and my routing is now recreational..small boxes and wall clocks and the like. Getting under the table to change bits is a pain in more ways than one. Just a thought...A table model with inbuilt motor does not have to be a direct drive. alternatively, I've toyed with the idea of the table being mounted upright in a vice so that the dust and waste does not fall on the motor. Maybe i'm just a step away from the looney. Its a little bit of dotage lateral thinking. I just hoped that someone has used the woodstar and could give me a hands on report.

This has already been done,Shopsmith did it back in the 70`s .Router is mounted on a 90* fence to the table top,you adjust it by a crank handle on top....then another company copied it ,came out so the table itself rotated on hinges to any degree you wanted....Anyway Shopsmith called it the router raiser http://shopsmith.com/

 

[wizer]

Something else that just occurred to me Ron. The Triton router has the facility to change the bit above the table. Here's a review:

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/review ... router.htm

The smaller Triton router had above the table height adjustment too.

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/review ... outer2.htm

 

[ronhayles]

yup I would love a shopsmith...had they been around when I started building it would have been justified.. but for eight inch by six inch boxes!!! I wish also that I had age on my side and energy and finance to build a new bench with a new router. I'm into downsizing following heart problems. Its great having your input guys and you all make sense...but if only!!! Maybe I'll persuade the missus to take me to the D & M show in November and then show my enthusiasm for the Triton that she will soften enough to agree to remorgage the house. I can dream, for goodness sake!!!

 

[Lee Brubaker]

Router dust collector.....I made my own with a collection point directly in line to the chips & dust thrown by the bit. There is also a collection point at the fence. A shop vac does a good job of clearing at both.

Lee

 

[big soft moose]

But have a look at this:

The table lifts on a gas strut, taken from the boot of a car. It was built by one of our members P111dom. .

That looks the total buisness - did he post a step by step on building it ? and if so do we know where it is ? (reoutfitting workshop at the moment)

 

[wizer]

no I don't think he did. He's an active member, send him a PM

 

[dickm]

But have a look at this:

The table lifts on a gas strut, taken from the boot of a car. .

Or there is the Ryobi/Record/Woodcut(?) cast iron beast that works in the same way. Not sure if the Record has a gas strut - my Ryobi certainly doesn't. It's big and heavy, but pretty convenient and has a good screw-adjust for the fences.
Wonder how difficult it would be to fit a gas strut????

 

[ronhayles]

hey!! steady on guys all these clever adaptions have got my wants juices going and invading my sleep time....But..there is a reality..for everyone of you that has this ability there are thousands of us that still have the original set up. That is a single speed unit under a basic bench and have never risen above this. The router was designed as a hand held tool until someone decided it could be turned up the other way static. The manufacturers have tweaked this through some clever designs but it's a hybrid. Fine when the router was hauled out from under the table for hand work, but who does this now? A second router is the answer..and so its time for manufacturers to redesign the power unit for under table work. The Woodrat was first to challenge this. Its clever but for me, a little Rat user, it moves beyond the basic simplicity of the router table. The Woodstar interests me for this reason. Its a built in motor with variable speeds and a different method of rise and fall. Its said that it looks plasticy but what the heck..Does it do the job and do it well...that is what I need to find out and until I get a response or a wookworking mag does a test I will be left wondering

 

[ian currie]

So i bought a Woodstar BS52 from Machine Mart for £165. Great machine, table model with built in motor is excellent. Works great and although looks a bit cheap did the business...... that is until the motor gave up the ghost ! I'm returning it this week, i hope this is an isolated failure because i love the machine and the concept is spot on....i can't understand why would anyone want to patch togeher a machine made for hand use with a separate table?
seems to me akin to buyin a bike and then decidin you want an engine on it,,,, then cobblin a strimmer motor onto it !
why not get a moped in the first place. ?
anyway maybe i'm the dumb boy cus it broke, however i still feel this concept is the best option and hope other manufacturers get the message.
will post again when i get a response from MACHINE MART.

 

[BradNaylor]

I had thought that a manufacter would produce a table model with an inbuilt motor.

I have thought this for years.

I find it a total mystery that one of the pwer tool companies hasn't brought out a small spindle moulder specifically designed for the use of router cutters.

I envisage a cast iron table with mitre fence, good quality rise and fall mechanism, fully adustable fence with dust extraction, the ability to change cutters from above the table, and a variable speed motor built in.

I'd buy one, you'd buy one, every bugger would buy one!

So why doesn't someone do it?

Until then we'll all have to make do with the ridiculous Heath Robinson solution of slinging a hand-held router upside down under a table...

Cheers
Dan

PS don't bother anyone pointing out the Jet SM which claims to take router cutters. It's a good idea in principle but doesn't work - it's RPM is too slow!

 

[ronhayles]

Hi Dan. Thought I was writing to myself ..Glad someone agrees. I am in correspondence with a woodworking mag over a review of another product that is similar to the Woodstar. What I envisage is a manufactured unit of four pillars held in a square steel cage. Onto these pillars would be cross members, connected via bushes, allowing a rise and fall motion similar to the present router. a dedicated motor would be bolted to these cross members eliminating any weight on the table top insert plate. This could be produced as a unit allowing it to be purchased and bolted under a table into the thickest part of the table top. It would require sufficient rise and fall to allow the router bits to be changed above the table. It would be a winner. Then how about changing the shank of the router bits from round to six sided, eliminating the curse of the collet. The bit could be held in place by a simple screw cap. regards Ron. Look forwaqrd to news of the Woodstar.

 

[Digit]

I think the reason it's never been done fellahs is 'cos it's one of those things that falls under the heading of 'why the hell didn't I think of that!'
Obvious! Once someone points it out! Lets hope a manufacturer reads your posts.

Roy.

 

[ian currie]

Hi guys, especially, Ronhayles, Digit and Dan.....
Contrary to popular belief Machine Mart, bless them, gave me an on the spot EXCHANGE for my broken Woodstar BS52. Well done Machine Mart lots of brownie points,,,, will shop there again soon!
I did have to stomp about a bit and insist that the assistant speak to a superior. Less experienced complainers may have been fobbed off by the "Woodstar insist on inspecting returns before exchange" put off line.

anyway, in my opinion the machine is a dream ! looks a bit amateur but mated to a nice set of half inch Trend cutters will do a very nice job.
in all fairness i think we probably expected a little too much from our first one, putting a full bullnose on around 40metres of 18mm thick solid oak skirting with hardly a break.

After instructing my son to give the new machine a breather every 15metres or so, it flew through around 600metres today.

I think the bearings probably gave out on the first one. Will be a doddle on smaller runs and certainly on softwoods.

You do have to assemble a few bits which are a bit fiddly and the plastic bits look a bit naff, however they do seem to be very good quality and strong but flexible. With the two table extensions fitted it makes a very user friendly unit. We screwed ours to the top of an old B&D workmate which is a big improvement especially in the more stable half height position of the workmate.

hope this puts the concerns to bed. i can strongly recommend the BS52
cheers
ian

 

[Lee Brubaker]

Bearing failures re routers mounted in a table is usually due to fairly heavy slogging using bearing bits for machining decorative edges. People take a full bite insead of setting the fence to allow several shallow cuts. Then of course, what is the quality of the router in question ? Lower priced routers often have cheap bearings.
The front of my router table is open so I made an acrylic extractor to eliminate sweeping after table use & have extraction at the fence as well.

Lee

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[Argee]

The much vaunted Triton "advantage" of being designed for use in a table and avoiding dust ingress is to my mind just marketing and trying to differentiate their product from others by "solving" a problem that doesn't exist.

Please excuse the pictures being to differing scales, but they clearly show the difference between a quite popular brand (RE601E) on the left, with aeration slots in the horizontal surface of the base and the plain horizontal base surfaces of the Triton routers, which have their slots in the vertical surface of the motor body.

When used inverted in a table, it would be foolish to suggest that dust and debris will enter the motor whilst it's in use, as the action of the cooling fan blades propel air outward (upward, when inverted) in each model I've seen. There may be an odd machine that has the cooling impeller reversed, but I don't know of one, as it would tend to suck dust and debris into the motor.

However, when stationary - during bit changing, fence adjusting, clearing up, etc. - then the one on the left is far more vulnerable to ingesting dust and debris, that's just commonsense, not marketing.

Ray.

 

[Digit]

I have an Hitachi router permanently mounted in a table, as Ray shows the vents are in the underside and ideally suited for catching the dust!
I have fitted an acrylic shield to the router that covers the slots but allows the air free movement.
I also have a cheapo router fitted in an overhead set up and the lower bearing on that finally gave up the ghost last week, due to dust.
Replacement was cheap and easy so no prob, but an airline does help to keep them clear of the worst of the dust of course.

Roy.

 

[mailee]

Like Ike I too have an Hitachi M12V in my table with dust extraction but it still gets dust inside. Periodically I blow it through with an airline rather than trying to vacuum it out, it is more effective if messy. I have had no problems with my machine other than dust clogging the on off switch preventing it from turning off. I use the remote switching anyway so this isn't a problem. I am on my second Hitachi in the table now but not through dust ingress rather the electronic speed module gave up on the first one. My router has been in the table now for around two years. :wink:

 

[Sawdust]

Ron,

I built this: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... sc&start=0

as long as it's attached to my extractor, I don't get any dust clogging the bearings and so far no bearing trouble. It's also dead easy to change the cutters from above the table.

I think if you put a Triton or any other decent router in a table and hook up an extractor you will be OK.

And welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Mike

 

[p111dom]

What I envisage is a manufactured unit of four pillars held in a square steel cage. Onto these pillars would be cross members, connected via bushes, allowing a rise and fall motion similar to the present router. a dedicated motor would be bolted to these cross members eliminating any weight on the table top insert plate. This could be produced as a unit allowing it to be purchased and bolted under a table into the thickest part of the table top. It would require sufficient rise and fall to allow the router bits to be changed above the table. It would be a winner.

Do you mean like this?

Sorry for not posting this sooner I've been on holiday. Most of the responses you have had already echo my feelings too. The woodster is a budget tool that I think you might regret buying in the long term. Most people on the forum are avid followers of Triton, I have a T11 which I prefer but both are good. In the US there are many fixed based routers to choose from, which with the base removed gives you just that, a motor only with a collet for the bits. These are starting to filter over to here but to be honest they are just as expensive as the plunge routers so you have to weigh up whether you would be would be prepred to loose the plunge function in favour of above the table bit changing. Basically I think it comes down to economics. Tools are a lot cheaper over in the US so it's not such a big deal for people to buy one of each. Over here people tend to want max value for money which is what a plunge router gives you. Up until now there hasn't really been a market for them but that is changing. Personally I leave the T11 in the table for 90% of the time but I do use it free hand every now and then and it's a great tool both in and out of the table. Failing that it's not true that your router bits would be redundant if you bought a spindle moulder as you can get an attachment so they would fit. The problem is that they run much slower than a router which is fine for bigger bits but not for the smaller ones. What about an older Kity combi machine like the K5. A small table saw, plainer/thicknesser and a small spindle moulder all belt driven off one induction motor? Failing that you could take the route above but hat's about £200 for the lift, £200 for the router motor plus shipping and you'd need a 110v box etc etc.

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

I've used dewalt and trend routers quite heavily in my workshop, mainly for small mouldings and cabinet doors and have never had any of the problems mentioned. Just make sure its blown through every hour or so and things will be fine.
For the cost of the setup dom mentioned you are looking at second hand spindle moulders anyway, these are far superior to any router table.