roofing problems

[ciscoeuk]

hi all

hope all are well

i need advice from a roofer/joiner

my garage flat roof (workshop) has leak again for the third time, it not too bad at present, but you never know!

19' x 9'

what i want to do is raise it to T apex, at present it is half apex (front) and half flat with the flat to the rear to the garage

i want to create a T apex to the rear, i have some joinery skills

the advice i need is how do i tie in to the existing apex roof, info on spacing , building regs, gutters, leading, etc anything would be helpful!

CAN this BE DONE CHEAPLY AND SAFELY????

i am out of work so its a DIY project later this year

photos would help me of how to tie in

i can supply photos of what i want

thanks

richard

ps it would great if someone local to me who has done this project could come and give me face to face advice, i live in newark notts

 

[MikeG.]

Richard,

a think a photo or two would help here enormously.....I'm struggling to picture what you have at the moment (T apex means nothing to me).

Mike

 

[ciscoeuk]

i think my terminology may be off

but photos are now here

and the leak and the second repair that cost over £300

i want to rip the lot off and redo as an apex and put back the beams to use a a wood store as this is my workshop

iknow about birsnest joints and plinths etc

 

[chippy1970]

iknow about birsnest joints and plinths etc

Are they anything like Birds mouth joints and I thought plinths went on kitchens Sorry I just had to pull you on that.

Try to do us a sketch of what you think you need. It looks like you have a small pitched section at the front of the garage and a flat roof to the rear if you are thinking of putting a fully pitched roof on you wont be able to, it will make it a lot higher. If you put a pitched roof at the back to match the front you will still have a flat section in between.

Best option I can see is strip the flat section and get it done properly with modern rubber type roof covering that will be guaranteed for life. I would do something about that lean to those joists shouldn't be sitting on the flat roof that could move and make it leak too.

 

[ciscoeuk]

iknow about birsnest joints and plinths etc

Are they anything like Birds mouth joints and I thought plinths went on kitchens Sorry I just had to pull you on that.

cheeky :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ciscoeuk]

not a doulbe pitch roof

what i had in mind was a t shape ie pitch rood at 90 deg to each other and fill the end with tonge and groove

if you get what it mean

i will do a sketchup drawing and post later

 

[ciscoeuk]

heres what i had in mind

 

[MikeG.]

That existing roof is a truly ghastly detail! To have interlocking tiles sitting straight down on felt ....words fail me.

Well, in principal there shouldn't be too much problem with you proposal, although depending on boundaries and your local authorities guidance you may need planning permission. I would doubt it, but you must ask them.

You should be able to leave the existing joists in place, and use them as ties between the new rafters. (Bolt the rafters to the joists). The ply deck can stay in place as well, although you will have to cut back at the edges to allow your rafters in. You absolutely must not leave the felt in place though. Leaving the ply in place will also give you a nice platform to work off when building the roof.

Your main difficulty is going to be joining the new and existing rooves together. The timberwork here is a nuisance, but not too difficult. But retro-fitting a valley will mean stripping the exiting roof back a fair way, putting lay-boards down, cutting and refixing the existing battens, some lead work, the cutting of your valley tiles (easy once you know how, but easy to miss-mark, and easy to get the angles very wrong even if you follow your line exactly).

If you haven't done this before, I would get a builder-friend to give you a helping hand.

Try and avoid having the ridge at exactly the same height as the existing.......... it should be lower otherwise you will have a nasty detail at the head of your new valleys.

Best of luck!!! Don't forget to take some photos.......

Mike

 

[ciscoeuk]

thanks for the advice i will take photos but

i will get a quote ifrst from a pro roofer to the cost differance

if anyone in notts live near newark who has done this type of project can call in on me it would be very helpful

this need to be done befor the winter sets in again

thanks

ric

 

[johnf]

It helps to have the same pitch at the rear as the front makes it easier to form the valley also looks better

it is not impossible to have different pitches but makes the valley gutter tricky
hope this helps

 

[ciscoeuk]

after measeuring & sitting down to draw out, the ridge will be at equal hieght, to the one in place and the angles i almost the same, just out by 1/2 " to which i will build in the adjustment

i would like sames photos of the vallies and ridge tie in's, to give me an idea of how it will look without felt

is it worth plywood sheeting the roof before felting????

will i need to use soffits on the rear side? and leave a over hang?

one thing, this is my wood workshop and it contains £3k of machinary, so i thing i going to need several water proof tarps,

hopeing to start job in june when my money situation is better have to do ththis on a shoestring budget as i am out of work,

other jobs to finish first, like the garden for my mother, which has not been touch for 3 years, ouch, just been smacked around the head for that one, lol

keep the advice coming it all helps

 

[MikeG.]

after measeuring & sitting down to draw out, the ridge will be at equal hieght, to the one in place and the angles i almost the same, just out by 1/2 " to which i will build in the adjustment

This, as I said, is not a good thing!

You will really struggle to make 2 valleys arrive properly at a ridge, and keep everything watertight. I wouldn't make a big deal out of the equal angles thing........getting that new ridge at least 9 inches below the existing is much more important.

Mike

 

[martin99]

You could improve the leakiness by draining the pitch roof into a gutter instead of on to the flat roof. Also, as flat roofs don't do well at the best of times they usually need a steeper fall than they are given.

 

[jhwbigley]

heres one i did.

not a very good picture, but there is about 3 tiles between the ridges, as Mike says, its hard work having both ridges at the same height.

John

 

[johnf]

after measeuring & sitting down to draw out, the ridge will be at equal hieght, to the one in place and the angles i almost the same, just out by 1/2 " to which i will build in the adjustment

This, as I said, is not a good thing!

You will really struggle to make 2 valleys arrive properly at a ridge, and keep everything watertight. I wouldn't make a big deal out of the equal angles thing........getting that new ridge at least 9 inches below the existing is much more important.

Mike

As a building roofing / contractor with 40 years experience we have done numerous roof details where 2 valleys arrive at the ridge with no problem

all you need is a lead saddle to cover the joint this is hidden below the ridge tiles.

Much better than 2 different pitches this causes the tile courses not to line up you will not be able to use a standard glass fibre valley section .

code 6 lead is the alternative at more expense

looking at the existing roof pitch I would estimate a 30% pitch if you lower the new roof to 9 inches below the ridge the pitch is almost to shallow for the tiles to weather

 

[MikeG.]

John,

I pitched my advice at the level of a guy new to roofing.........not to someone who could do it in their sleep! Clearly there are ways to get ridges of the same height.......but it isn't a novice job, is it?

Personally I would always use a lead valley, because a fibreglass valley looks like a fibreglass valley.....but I hear what you say.

I reckon that Newark isn't a million miles away from you..........

Mike

 

[dennis]

John,

I cannot see why fibre glass valleys cannot be used on valleys with 2 different pitches, could you explain why not. Also regarding the tile courses not lining, if there is not a lot of difference in pitches you may be able to pull a bit on the lap but if not, even courses not lining up would be a vast improvement on the present appearance.

I agree that in this case it would look better with the ridges level. Depending on the width of the flat roof he may have to have the new ridge higher than the existing one to have the same pitch, in which case it would look better with level ridges and different pitches. Like Mike I also prefer lead valleys.

Dennis

 

[johnf]

John,

I pitched my advice at the level of a guy new to roofing.........not to someone who could do it in their sleep! Clearly there are ways to get ridges of the same height.......but it isn't a novice job, is it?

Personally I would always use a lead valley, because a fibreglass valley looks like a fibreglass valley.....but I hear what you say.

I reckon that Newark isn't a million miles away from you..........

Mike

Yes Mike
but different pitches always look wrong a (do the job right not like a pigs ear)

 

[ciscoeuk]

thanks john

shame you don't live up the road from i would love to pick your brains a bit more

as the roof is not part of the living accomo but the garage, the does not require an r factor, i was wondering would i need to call in the a building inspector and seek planning, this roof will be out of site of the main road, i will be writing a letter to my neibour, to explain what i am doing, out of curtusy,

using lead would be great but it is bloody over priced, i might use zinc valley but, subject to funding, go with lead to tie in the crown,

the one thing i am not sure of, is do i remove the orginal rafters, to put valley rafters or just nail straight onto the one in the orginal apex????

i understand abut the differant hieghts, but of me K.I.S.S, comes to mind, go with what you know, the internet has helped to refresh my memory and with building regs,

 

[MickCheese]

Is that a walkway between your house and garage?

Why do you not just have an apex roof running the entire length?

It is the false roof at the front that seems to be giving you all the grief.

What about a picture from the front?

Mick